----------
Van: Leendert van Oostrum[SMTP:O...@scientia.up.ac.za]
Verzonden: dinsdag 30 januari 1996 10:20
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5840] Re: DS: Re: DS: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: (Fwd)
> In soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans, schreef fe...@is.co.za
> (Koos):
>
>> > >As dit gedoen was, was dit beslis nie op enige noemenswaardige
>>>> >skaal aangepak vir enige tydperk wat 'n verskil kan maak nie.
>
>>> Inderdaad net wat Freek beweer het. "Oorbruggingskursusse" moes
>>> meesal onmiddelik gestaak word, weens druk uit wat die
>>> onderwysministerie so graag "the community" noem. Maar daarvan het
>>> jy dalk ook nie gehoor nie - hmm?
>
>>> Groete, Leendert>>
>
>> Inderdaad het ek nie.
>> Vertel my meer daarvan asb.
Sekerlik - kyk die koerantargiewe oor die onderwerp "onderwys" sedert
Januarie 1995 of daar rond.
>> CR SWart in Pretoria - ek het werklik gedink dit is een van talle
>> skole in Suid-Afrika. Is ek verkeerd?
Nee.
>> Was die skool en sy program
>> so massief dat die hele land en gemeenskap en regering en so meer
>> daaraan gemeet kan word.
Nee. Dit was ook een van die talle skole waar sulke programme nie van
die grond af kon kom nie, omdat dit verbied is. In die geval van
Gauteng, weens klagtes uit die gemeenskap, is die skole deur die
onderwysdepartement self verbied om sulke programme in te stel en
voort te sit.
>> Vertel my asb. meer van die skool.
Kry hulle nommer by navrae en vra hulle self.
>
>> Was daar druk uit die "community"?
Volgens koerantberigte en volgens Mev Metcalfe se kantoor wel.
>> Was daar nie en lieg die owerheid? Se asb.
Jammer, hier te te veel negatiewe in die sin - ek volg nie wat jy wil
he^ ek moet "Se" nie.
>> En as daar druk was, hoe groot was dit, wat was die redes, hoe is
>> dit oorgedra? Se asb. Noem sommer die ander skole ook asb. Ek is
>> seker daar is 'n paar ander in die land.
Jou belangstelling is so intens dat ek jou graag wil verwys na
prime^re bronne. Kyk gerus die koerantargiewe, vra gerus by die
onderwysowerhede en doen gerus navraag by sommige van die ander skole
in die land waarvan jy reeds seker is.
Maar jou navraag gaan tog oor die omvang van die "program". My
stelling was dat geen omvangryke program van die grond kon kom nie,
omdat dit in die kiem gesmoor is - deur onderwysowerhede self, op
aandrang van wat hulle "die community" noem.
Groete, Leendert
Leendert van Oostrum Telephone: +27-12-4203656
UNIVERSITY OF PRETORIA Fax: +27-12-432863
(Which does not neces- e-mail oos...@scientia.up.ac.za
sarily endorse opinions experessed here)
Ek verneem ou Christo Wiese en sy pelle beoog 'n afrikaanse betaalkanaal. Net
soos die ouens in die verlede Sanlam, AVBOB, ens ens op die been gebring het.
Dis hoogtyd dat die afrikaner ophou om te kerm oor hoeveel mini-minute
afrikaans hy op tv, in skole, en in die wagkamers van tandartse gaan
toegestaan word. Hou jou oe oop vir soortgelyke ventures.
Daai betaalkanaal is 'n moneyspinner. Hou 'n ogie oop vir afrikaanse
privaatskoolketting, die herlewing van die afrikaanse pers. Jy weet waar om
jou aandele te koop.
Kyk, die afrikaner het gekom uit die survivor-klas van europa. En sy soldate
was nog altyd die dapperste, sy politici die skelmste, en sy ekonome die mees
geslepe.
'n Meerderheidsregering gaan dit nie verander nie.
Wanneer gaan die omsendbriewe vir die herlewingsvergaderings van die broeders
en die rapporters begin aankom?
Skryf hierdie op die tafel van jou hart: Oor twintig jaar is die afrikaner
weer aan bewind.
(Hierdie is nie noodwendig 'n weerspieeling van my politieke oortuigings nie.
Maar wel 'n barometer van politieke sinisme.)
----------
Van: Freek Eek[SMT...@knersus.nanoteq.co.za]
Verzonden: dinsdag 30 januari 1996 17:37
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5850] Re: Radikalis
> Ek het nie nou die HAT byderhand nie, maar die tweetalige woordboek
> ondersteun jou mening. Verskonings. Daar bestaan wel "radikalisme" en
> "radikaliseer".
>
> Is mens 'n radikaal, of bloot radikaal? M.a.w. word die onbepalende
> lidwoord gebruik?
Ek het ook nie nou die woordeboeke byderhand nie, maar ek vermoed die
HAT en Kritzinger gee radikaal ook as selfstandige naamwoord en nie
net as byvoeglike naamwoord nie. In Engels se jy ook "He is a
radical". Miskien moet die taalkundiges maar weer help.
=======================================================
Freek Eek
Die klank verklik my vreugde en verdriet,
ek vra wat elke ding my snare bied;
sal alles doen en selfs verraai
net dat 'n nuwe deuntjie in my draai.
Ag Heer, vergewe my die sondes van die lied.
OUD-DIGTER
Die panne is nie opgedroog. Die spoor
van die grootwild het ek 'n rukkie net verloor
en leef intussen van die enkel reel
wat springend ritsel om die oog en oor.
Daar bly die bose vuurtjie wat ek mos kan stook
en vlae reen lok as die gifpot kook.
Maar uit die pot spring net 'n dwarrelwind
en daagliks word ek doller van wildedagga rook.
Doller... dan sterker as die jongeres gespier,
sien ek wat hulle nie kan sien: die koel rivier,
die gemsbok en reenvoel... opgeefselend
oor my Kalahari's wit papier.
----------
Van: G P L Van der Linde[SMTP:V...@alpha.unisa.ac.za]
Verzonden: maandag 29 januari 1996 7:13
Aan: afri...@unseen.aztec.co.za; wage...@xs4all.nl
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5809] Re: Wie wou vir Koos koos? -Reply
'n "koos" met 'n klein lettertjie is 'n piepot - die toekenning word gewoonlik
gemaak aan iemand wat op die een of ander manier droogmaak
G.
PS: iemand wat op groot skaal droogmaak, kry 'n goue koos, so Koos kom
lig daarvan af
>>> Robert Wagenaar 28/January/1996 03:50pm
>>>
In soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans, schreef iz...@igs.net (Izak
Bouwer):
> Iemand skrywe onlangs op die nuusgroep:
> ?Ek dink hierdie Koos verdien ?n koos.?
> Wat beteken die woord ?koos?? Ek ken dit nie.
> Uit die sinsverband het ek gedink twee betekenisse
> is moontlik: (1) Koos verdien ?n opstopper.
> (2) Koos verdien ?n soen.
> Is ek enigsins warm?
> As die eerste alternatief die regte is, dan wil ek net se:
> Los vir Koos uit.
> Koos is cute. (Gloudina)
----------
Van: Tom Larney[SMTP:...@puknet.puk.ac.za]
Verzonden: maandag 29 januari 1996 16:26
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5829] Menseregte
Freek spreek:
> Dit is nou vir mense soos jy wat glo dat mense met sekere menseREGTE
> gebore word. Ek sal egter bereid wees om met jou daaroor te redeneer
> om jou gelukkig te hou. Ek persoonlik glo egter dat ek net voorREGTE
> het, wat die Liewe Heer aan my skenk.
As 'n mens bely dat alles alleen bestaan deur die voorsienigheid van God
en dat ek alles wat ek het, aan sy genade te danke het (of volgens Koos
Doep: "Wat ek is, is net genade; wat ek het, is net geleen"), dan moet
mens sekerlik ook sterk leef by die belewenis en belydenis van voorregte
wat ons uit die Hand van God ontvang. Akkoord.
Maar is dit die laaste woord daaroor ook in my verhouding met ander
mense? Het ek geen aanspraak op ander om my nie die belewing van daardie
voorregte te ontsê nie? As daar 'n gemeenregtelike basis is (sekerlik
op grond van en in ooreenstemming met die sesde en agste gebooie) vir die
staat om mense te straf vir moord/aanranding en diefstal en vir my om
skadevergoeding of genoegdoening van hulle te eis vir sulke oortredings
teen my, hoekom is ander aspekte van God se orde nie ook 'n basis vir my
opeis van regte teenoor andere nie?
Voor ek te filosofies raak: as alles net voorregte is wat God aan my
skenk, het die Afrikaner dan 'n reg op voortbestaan en het Afrikaners /
Afrikaanssprekendes 'n reg om te eis dat hulle taal se bestaan behoorlik
erken word? (Vrae waarop ek, terloops, positief antwoord.) As daar geen
sodanige aansprake is nie, hoef ons in reaksie op die huidige kreeftegang
van Afrikaans in die openbare lewe, en op ander dinge wat ons bekommer,
sekerlik nie meer te sê as ou Job in 1:21 nie. As daar wel sulke
aansprake is, maak dit, glo ek, nie saak of ons hulle menseregte of xyz
noem nie. Dat dit nie regte teenoor God is nie, stem ons oor saam.
Tom Larney
Ferdinand Postma-Biblioteek / Library, PU vir CHO
Privaatsak X05, 2522 Noordbrug, Suid-Afrika / South Africa
FP...@PUKNET.PUK.AC.ZA Tel: 27-148-2992780
----------
Van: G P L Van der Linde[SMTP:V...@alpha.unisa.ac.za]
Verzonden: maandag 29 januari 1996 9:16
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5822] Re: Wie wou vir Koos koos? -Reply
'n "koos" met 'n klein lettertjie is 'n piepot - die toekenning word gewoonlik
gemaak aan iemand wat op die een of ander manier droogmaak
G.
PS: iemand wat op groot skaal droogmaak, kry 'n goue koos, so Koos kom
lig daarvan af
>>> Robert Wagenaar 28/January/1996 03:50pm
>>>
In soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans, schreef iz...@igs.net (Izak
Bouwer):
> Iemand skrywe onlangs op die nuusgroep:
> ?Ek dink hierdie Koos verdien ?n koos.?
> Wat beteken die woord ?koos?? Ek ken dit nie.
> Uit die sinsverband het ek gedink twee betekenisse
> is moontlik: (1) Koos verdien ?n opstopper.
> (2) Koos verdien ?n soen.
> Is ek enigsins warm?
> As die eerste alternatief die regte is, dan wil ek net se:
> Los vir Koos uit.
> Koos is cute. (Gloudina)
----------
Van: Reinier de Vos[SMTP:...@aqua.ccwr.ac.za]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 januari 1996 9:59
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5800] Liberaliste en ander wesens
Na aanleiding van die bespreking van wat 'n liberalis nou eintlik
is, het ek hierdie uitstekende artikel nou pas in die hande gekry.
Dis geskryf deur Andrew Kenny, en het in "Frontiers of Freedom",
wat deur die Instituut vir Rasseverhoudings uitgegee is, verskyn.
Die artikel is helaas in Engels, maar ek hoop ek sal die heiligskennis
vergewe word nadat mense die artikel gelees het. Kenny sê alles
wat ek graag sou wou sê, net beter. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------ --------
What Labels Really Mean
-----------------------
by Andrew Kenny
What do the terms "left-wing" and "right-wing" mean? Tell me
whether the following people are left or right: Fidel Castro who
has suspended elections in Cuba for 35 years, banned trade unions
prosecuted homosexuals and is arranging to hand over power to his
brother; Mother Teresa, who is an extreme opponent of abortion;
Louis Farrakahn, the anti-semitic black American leader, who
believes men are superior to women; Oswald Mosley, British
fascist leader, who proposed a revolutionary universal national
health scheme; Bernard Shaw, socialist Irish playwright, who
admired Hitler; Winnie Mandela, an ANC politician who drives
around in a large Mercedes; and Ayatollah Khomeini, the
fundamentalist Islamic leader.
Is nationalism left-wing or right-wing? Most communist
governments, including those of Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, Mao's China and communist North Korea, are extremely
nationalist. On the other hand the capitalist multi-national
companies are completely internationalist: they care nothing for
nation and simply move where wages are lowest and profits are
highest. Does this mean communism is right-wing and
multi-national capitalism left-wing? Or does it mean it is left-
wing to be nationalist and right-wing to be internationalist?
How about racism? Is racial discrimination left-wing or
right-wing? If a government believes that a minority race, say
the Jews in Nazi Germany or the whites in South Africa today,
have wealth and power in disproportion to their numbers, is it
left-wing or right-wing to have institutional racism against
them, such as affirmative action with racial quotas? Of course
Hitler's measures were immeasurably more extreme. Does this mean
he was an extreme left-winger or an extreme right-winger?
Who is more right-wing, the working classes or the privileged
classes? In 1922 the South African Communist Party staged a
workers' rebellion against the capitalist mining houses under the
slogan "Workers of the World Unite Behind a White South Africa!"
The capitalists wanted to open mining jobs to blacks; the
communists wanted to keep them for whites only. Should a
left-winger have backed the workers or the bosses? After 1948,
the white workers were overwhelmingiy in favour of apartheid and
white opposition to it came almost entirely from the bourgeoisie.
Does this mean workers are right-wing and the bourgeoisie is
left-wing? Or does it mean that if you supported apartheid you
were left-wing and if you opposed it you were right-wing?
Take art and literature. Nadine Gordimer's novels have a tiny
readership of middle-class, mainly white people; Wilbur Smith's
novels are read by a huge number of people of all races and
classes. Only the bourgeoisie attend film festivals which
feature foreign (that is, non-American) films showing sensitive
portrayals of the human dilemma - the workers like action-packed
American films starring dinosaurs or Arnold Schwarzenegger. Does
this make Gordimer and cerebral foreign films right-wing and
Wilbur Smith and Arnold Schwarzenegger left-wing? Or are the
artistic tastes of the toiling masses right-wing and of the
privileged classes left-wing?
Does a left-winger believe that decisions affecting everybody
should be taken by all people or just by a small elite?
Consider, for example, capital punishment. Opinion poll after
opinion poll shows that the majority of people of all races are
in favour of the death penalty but in South Africa it has been
abolished by the decision of a handful of highly paid lawyers in
the Constitutional Court. Does a left-winger believe that this
decision should have been taken instead by the masses in a
referendum?
Take censorship. Is it left-wing or right-wing to be in favour
of censorship? Feminists and religious fundamentalists believe
girlie magazines should be banned. Are they left or right? Take
the problem of drugs. Some people believe in harsh laws against
suppliers and dealers; others, such as the champion of the free
market, Milton Friedman, believe that all drugs should be
legalised. Does this make Friedman a left-winger?
Consider attitudes towards different cultures. Is it the left or
the right that believes European culture must be imposed on
Africa? Take the examples of female circumcision and polygamy.
Does a left-winger believe that whites must respect these African
practices or condemn them and persuade blacks to stop them? If
so, is it characteristic of the left to belleve that white
culture is superior to black and of the right to believe they are
equal?
The point about all of these questions is that nobody can answer
them. The terms "left-wing" and "right-wing" are meaningless. I
once tried to find such meaning from a Christian fundamentalist
who proudly described himself as right-wing. I asked him to
classify Hitler and Mother Teresa. He replied that Hitler was a
left-winger and Mother Teresa a right-winger. His superficial
reason was that Hitler was godless and revolutionary, and Mother
Teresa was devout and apolitical. His deeper reason was that he
did not like Hitler and he did like Mother Teresa, and for him
"right" was good and "left" was bad.
This is the heart of the matter. "Left" and "right" are not
terms of political category but of approval or disapproval. When
a sociology lecturer at Wits University calls you a right-winger
or a white boilermaker at Vanderbijlpark calls you a left-winger,
what both really mean is "You bastard!" Silly inventions like
"the New Left" and "the New Right" mean nothing more than "Fat-
head" or "Baldy". On the other hand when a lecturer calls
himself a left-winger and the boilermaker calls himself a
right-winger, what both mean is "Hurray for me!" The former
wants to be regarded as intellectually superior, the latter as
macho.
If you want to find consistent political categories, the first
step is to disregard all claims of noble intention: every tyrant
in history claimed to be acting for the good of the people and so
does every evil ideology ever devised.
The next step is to recognise that facism and communism do not
represent opposite ends of the political spectrum but the same
end. They are Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Fascism, or National
Socialism, is a derivative of Marxism, and apartheid is a
derivative of National Socialism.
Stalin and Hitler resembled each other, admired each other, used
the same methods of state terror and made a deal for the invasion
of Poland that started the Second World War; both hated
capitalism, trampled on human rights and slaughtered millions of
people.
The most important question in politics is over the size of the
state (By the "state" I mean the monopoly powers of government).
And here the political categories are clear. On one end of the
range are anarchists, who believe there should be no state at
all. Then come liberals, who hold liberty as the highest
political good and believe the state should be as small as
possible to ensure rule of law. Then come socialists, who
believe the state should be large: the mild socialists, the
Social Democrats, believe in democracy and a degree of liberty;
the extreme socialists, the fascists and communists, despise
democracy and seek to destroy liberty. A crucial difference
between the liberal and the socialist is that the liberal is
always suspicious of power and the socialist admires it.
Capitalism is just liberalism with warts.
Then there are other clear categories between nationalists and
internationalists, between countries with open borders and
countries with closed borders, and between conservatives who wish
things to stay as they are (things like the British monarchy,
African culture and Amazon rain forests) and revolutionaries who
wish to overthrow them.
But all of these categories overlap in complicated ways because
individual people are unpredictable and inconsistent in their
political and aesthetic preferences. No man is all of a piece.
What we need to do is recognise this variety and uncertainty.
In South Africa, unfortunately, there is a tendency to tribalise
political ideas. We do not ask a man what he thinks about this
or that issue but what ideological tribe he belongs to. We use
labels like "left" and "right" because it saves us from having to
think and comforts us by dividing people into friends and
enemies. But this is the mentality of the kindergarten, and we
are actually adults in a complicated society of changing ideas.
If you simply refuse to use the terms "left" and "right" in a
political discussion, you will see that you begin to think about
real political divisions and to reason like an adult.
--
Reinier de Vos Internet: de...@aqua.ccwr.ac.za
Computing Centre for Water Research Tel: Int+27 331 260-5179
c/o University of Natal, P/Bag X01 Fax: Int+27 331 61896
Scottsville, South Africa, 3200 http://www.ccwr.ac.za/
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
Ons spaar die duiwel baie moeite
- C J Langenhoven
----------
Van: Reinier de Vos[SMTP:...@aqua.ccwr.ac.za]
Verzonden: donderdag 25 januari 1996 17:49
Aan: Multiple recipients of list
Onderwerp: [AFRIKAANS:5791] Re: Alternatiewe betekenisse
Joop vra:
> ps Ek kan nie onthou wat Reinier voorgestel het nie ... :-(
sekswinkeltjie
--
Reinier de Vos Internet: de...@aqua.ccwr.ac.za
Computing Centre for Water Research Tel: Int+27 331 260-5179
c/o University of Natal, P/Bag X01 Fax: Int+27 331 61896
Scottsville, South Africa, 3200 http://www.ccwr.ac.za/
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
Ons spaar die duiwel baie moeite
- C J Langenhoven
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