GOEDGESIND?
ELAINE JY LEEF IN WERELDJIE VAN JOU EIE
"Elaine" skryf in boodskap news:3a1fd050.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> HAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!!!!! Ek like toevallig vir Mandela, hy's 'n heel vriendelik
> omie, want meeste witemense baie goedgesind was. SO WATCH YOUR WORDS!!!!!!
>
> Elaine
>
> koos wrote in message
> news:8vogej$dl5$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>> MANDELA HET MOONTLIK KANKER, MAG HY STADIG EN VOL PYN VREK
>>
>
Natuurlik sal dit nie werk nie stupid, haal die fixit uit as jy hom direk
wil email.
Elaine
koos skryf in boodskap news:8vojpb$mq4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> The original message was received at Sat, 25 Nov 2000 16:28:07 +0200
> from lt53-01-p109.nt.saix.net [155.239.192.109]
>
Hierdie artikel het in die National Post, Kanada verskyn.....
The new, white, shantytowns
In post-apartheid South Africa, whites are experiencing the kind of poverty
previously suffered by blacks
Corinna Schuler
National Post
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa - The shabby wooden huts huddle in rows beneath
highway billboards and a giant water tower, appearing, at first glance, like
all the other shantytowns on the outskirts of cities across South Africa.
Families here live four or five to a single room. Most wear the same clothes
day after day, share toilets with dozens of others and dream each night of a
better life. It is a hardship familiar to many among the country's 11.5
million poor.
But something is strikingly different about this settlement: Its 100
residents are almost exclusively white.
Tommy and Sandra Swarts sit with their two children on a sagging bed inside
hut I6, recounting how they -- white, working, proud Afrikaners -- fell
through a crack in their comfortable middle-class life and landed in the
nightmare of poverty.
They are among a tiny but growing number of white households in South Africa
who are enduring a misery that has long been a fact of life for most of the
nation's black people.
"When I saw poor blacks in the shacks before, I thought: Well, they are
lower class," concedes Mrs. Swarts, peering out from behind straggly blond
hair. "I never thought we would find ourselves in the same position.
"We used to have a house, a car, a phone. We used to go out to eat. The
children had toys, whatever they wanted ... Now we have nothing. It is not
like before."
That is to say, before apartheid came to its tumultuous end six years ago.
There have always been white South Africans who did not fit the stereotype
of rich people with palatial homes, a pool and a live-in maid. But apartheid
segregation was born in 1948 to ensure white Afrikaners were protected from
the kind of poverty many had endured in the depression years. The slogan of
the day was: "The white man must always remain boss."
The government preserved jobs -- in the civil service, on the railways, at
post offices and a host of other state enterprises -- exclusively for the
racial minority. Even white men who were reduced to doing basic labour
routinely earned double the salary of a black man in the same job. The few
whites who did find themselves unemployed or disabled in South Africa
received subsidized housing and decent welfare cheques from the state.
Not anymore. Six years of government by the African National Congress has
produced a harsh new reality for whites, especially those on society's lower
economic rung.
Pay equity laws and a push for affirmative action seek to correct injustices
of the past. As black Africans increasingly receive equal education and job
training, many whites feel they are facing serious job competition for the
first time in their lives. A general downturn in the economy has further
reduced their prospects.
The rate of unemployment among whites was at 3.4% in 1995, one year after
ANC came to power. By last year it had doubled to 6.8%.
Statistics released this month show that 2.7% of the nation's white
households are living below the poverty line of $250 a month. Some survive
on less than $5 a day.
"It is impossible to say how that compares to poverty during apartheid,"
says Ros Hirschowitz, at Statistics South Africa. "Prior to 1994, there were
no studies. The government did not measure unemployment and poverty -- it
was hidden."
But many whites insist they do not need statistics to tell them their
fortunes are falling in the new South Africa.
"The pale male is targeted," says Greyling Bezuidenhout, an organizer for
the Mine Workers Union, which represents 65,000 white workers in mining,
engineering and telecommunications.
"We have never denied that whites, even unproductive ones, got advantages in
the past because of the colour of their skin. It was wrong. But there is a
new racism now."
To be clear, white people -- 12.5% of the population -- still retain the
bulk of this country's wealth. Impoverished whites are a tiny segment of the
population, especially when compared with the 54% of blacks in this country
who struggle to survive below the poverty line. Many are rural peasants who
live in mud huts, scrounging for food, walking miles to fetch water or to
reach a rundown health clinic. It has been that way for decades.
By contrast, white people, such as the Swarts family, were largely strangers
to economic suffering.
Mr. Swarts, 41, lost a good job at the gold mines when the bullion price
crashed. But he bounced back by landing an even better one, building boilers
for the equivalent of $2,500 a month. It was a respectable salary, by South
African standards. He was a respected man.
Then, he says, 45 white employees were laid off during a union-employer
dispute over affirmative action. Mrs. Swarts had left her job as a nursing
assistant when she had a baby and could not find another post.
The family survived on savings for six months. When the money ran out, they
sold furniture, clothes, even most of the children's toys.
Eventually, they had nothing left to sell. The rent could not be paid and
the family of four was put out on the street.
They found their way here, to the Kempton Christian Action Centre -- a
refuge set up in 1993 after a local businessman noted that white people had
begun begging on the streets. Supported by the Afrikaner community and the
Dutch Reform Church, this charity project provides the destitute with small
huts and three nutritious meals a day. There is a central television room
for adults, a playground for kids, shared shower blocks and flush toilets.
Mr. and Mrs. Swarts are grateful, but admit their marriage almost fell apart
when they first moved here.
"I couldn't take it," Mr. Swarts concedes softly. "I just wanted to leave. I
couldn't stand to see the children here ... Look at the place."
The children, Chane and Andrew, share a single bed, squeezed in two feet
away from their parents' double bed. The stuffy hut has just one window,
covered by a tattered curtain. Clothes hang from hooks on the wall. A
counter at the end of the bed is stacked with a few pots, some books, cups
and toothbrushes. A few board games and puzzles are stacked in the corner,
alongside a doll in a blue baby carriage -- the few personal possessions
that have survived.
"If you have had something and then lost it, perhaps it hurts more at a
personal level," says Albert van Zyl, a researcher at the Institute for
Democratic Alternatives in South Africa.
He notes that, in the past, impoverished whites and Indians at least
received solid maintenance grants from the state. (Blacks and mixed-race
coloureds were ignored.) Today, welfare grants are being drastically reduced
as the new government cuts up its budget to serve people of all races.
White beggars, unheard of in the 1980s, have become a regular fixture at
some street corners in Johannesburg, holding one hand out to motorists while
clutching a sign in the other. The felt-pen scrawl on one such placard
reads: "No job, no house, no money."
For many Afrikaners, the Dutch descendants who were routinely taught they
were "God's chosen people," the humiliation is unbearable.
"In the past, blacks were pushed aside. I know that wasn't right," says Mr.
Swarts. "But it is the whites who are being put back. I don't think it is
fair. It should be more 50-50."
'Woorde is tydloos, en jy moet hulle uitspreek of neerskryf met die
volle wete dat, eenmaal gebruik, hulle nooit weer vergaan of verdwyn
nie.
Kahlil Gibran
Het iemand dalk 'n afdruk, of ken iemand dalk die volgende kunswerk?
Die skildery lyk na waterverf, daar is twee of drie ossewaens in die
agtergrond, lyk na doringboombosveld, en op die voorgrond is 'n klong wat
hurk by 'n kampvuurtjie met 'n driepootpot. Ek dink daar is een of twee osse
en'n juk eenkant. Die skildery is meestal mostert- en liggroen met bruin, en
'n stukkie lug.
Ek weet nie wie die skilder was nie, en ek het die afdruk nie meer nie. Kan
iemand asseblief help?
Die span werk, nie die een nie http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/
ook nie krieket nie, (vra maar vir Hansie), dis nie 1939 nie, ook
nie 1984 nie, ook nie honderd jaar gelede nie maar Veel later
(SORRY CRISPIN, IT'S NOT ONLY YOU (NOR ME))
We all have to choose Kam
-----Original Message-----
From: Crispin Sykes-Balls [mailto:cris...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 24 November 2000 13:59
To: etienne...@wcom.co.uk
Subject: RE: FW: No Choice?
I think that is a little defeatist, there's nothing to say you have
suffer
heightened problems by preventing another.
> From: "Marais, Etienne"
> To: 'Crispin Sykes-Balls'
> Subject: RE: FW: No Choice?
> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:45:12 -0000
>
> Rise you chair now and fall later,
> subjugate yourself now and Live
> later.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Crispin Sykes-Balls [mailto:cris...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 24 November 2000 13:45
> To: etienne...@wcom.co.uk
> Subject: Re: FW: No Choice?
>
>
> Well my friend, I hope it all works out for you. Your right - raising your
> chair will only solve one of life's problems, but it's a start.
> If you work out how to 'play ball' then you must let me know, 'cause it's a
> bit of a mystery to me.
>
>
>> From: "Marais, Etienne"
>> To: 'Crispin Sykes-Balles'
>> Subject: FW: No Choice?
>> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:57:00 -0000
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Marais, Etienne
>>> Sent: 24 November 2000 12:55
>>> To: Marais, Etienne
>>> Subject: RE: No Choice?
>>>
>>> Crispin writes:
>>>
>>> " Dude that's a bit deep, I'm not sure if I really understand. "
>>>
>>> I'm not sure either Crispin, that's why my head was so
>>> messed-up when I came here, and why it worsened as
>>> I went along. Well, Harry did tell me to 'play ball' maybe
>>> you should too, it's harder than you think but you may have
>>> some reading/studying to do, if you don't understand 'raising
>>> your chair a bit and lookin down' and 'I'm old' then you most
>>> certainly need to think why you say these things, fine gentle-
>> man you are, and not too bad with words either !!!
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Etienne
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Marais, Etienne
>>> Sent: 24 November 2000 12:00
>>> To: Sykes-Balls, Crispin
>>> Subject: RE: No Choice?
>>>
>>> NO had to leave in the middle of the night, like my ancestors,
>>> (and spend the night at some of my kinfolk's place), see, I
>>> brought it on myself like they did, but the night is over now.
>>>
>>> There would not be any chivalry in you background would
>>> there, say the Knight Templar or Tautonier knights or any
>>> of that which Wilbur Smith writes about ? It kind of feels as
>>> thought this country is back in it's Crusading spirit ?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Etienne
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sykes-Balls, Crispin
>>> Sent: 24 November 2000 11:54
>>> To: Marais, Etienne
>>> Subject: RE: No Choice?
>>>
>>> Dude that's a bit deep, I'm not sure if I really understand.
>>>
>>> Did you have a good time last night?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Marais, Etienne
>>> Sent: 24 November 2000 11:39
>>> To: Sykes-Balls, Crispin
>>> Subject: No Choice?
>>>
>>> Crispin
>>>
>>> It's in my ancestry, this rebellious
>>> attitude that my parents ate sour
>>> grapes and that it determined my
>>> fate, along the line there must
>>> have been masonry involved, probably
>>> from my grandmothers' side but
>>> at the end of the day I'm still given
>>> choice. It's out of freedom of choice
>>> that I turned my back on God and
>>> looked into masonry as my ancestors
>>> did (and by doing this sealed myself to
>>> fate) rather than do everyhing in my
>>> power to get away from it and bear
>>> the pain brought unto myself by sin.
>>> It's Jesus who died for our sins that
>>> makes this possible, impossible to
>>> do it by yourself, I've even tried !
>>>
>>> Etienne
>> --
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In article ,
"Sakkie" wrote:
>> Nasty Quaker wrote in message
>> news:zReT5.1491$iM1.189153@news.uswest.net...
>> | Ons ken almal baie goed, die prentjie van die foonkerel wat rustig op jou
>> | lyn inskakel terwyl hy sy toebroodjie daar op die straathoek eet. Ek het
>> | eenmaal 'n speurder geken wat elke aand huistoe gekom het met Telkom-klere
>> | en ID.
>> |
>>
>> Laat my dink aan die "tea-bags" (slang vir afluister apperaat) wat ons in
>> die telefoon sentrale op sommige huurders se lyne gesit het op versoek van
>> die polisie...
>>
>> jgj
>
> Of soos wat Ouboet-hulle altyd gedoen het: Gaan vroeg in die oggende
> (06:00) na die poskantoor se sentrum waar al die uitgaande en inkomende
> possies gesorteer word. Daar was altyd so stuk of 10 ou afgetrede
> veiligheidspolisiemanne wat deur al die pos gegaan het en enigiets onderskep
> het wat "verdag" of interessant lyk. Van pornografie tot politieke
> materiaal tot 'n dood onskuldige liefdesbrief wat per ongeluk in 'n sekere
> tipe koevert gepos is.
>
> Die pos is dan oopgemaak en bestudeer. Indien die inhoud van
> staatsveiligheidsbelang geag was, is dit gefotostateer en is die brief weer
> herseel, waarna dit teruggeplaas is. Briewe gerig aan sekere persone en
> instansies is uit beginsel onderskep en verbrand.
>
> En ja, vir diegene wat dalk wonder. Grootboet beloer en beluister nog
> steeds vir ons, ten spyte van die nuwe grondwet. Vra maar vir die
> Demokratiese Party. Vra sommer ook vir die Duitse en Amerikaanse ambassades
> in Pretoria.
>
>
'n Arend en Leeu is beide roofdiere wat verskeur.
In die leeukuil het die Here egter hul bekke gelsuit.
Dis nie 1939, of 1984 maar heelwat later, die anglo-
boere-oorlog is ook verby...
-- Never give out your password or credit card number in an instant
message conversation.
Jean says:
More Pommie
Etienne Marais says:
wat sê jy daar ?
Jean says:
Niks nie soutie Hoe gaan dit nog?
Etienne Marais says:
wie noem jy soutie ? Dit gaan goed !
Etienne Marais says:
self ?
Jean says:
Oraait, ek is net besig om weer siek te raak...Griep
Jean says:
Etienne Marais says:
Jean says:
Is jy besig?
Jean says:
Dis more Saterdag.!!!!
Etienne Marais says:
Ja !!!
Jean says:
Wat gaan jy maak?
Etienne Marais says:
raai net wat
Jean says:
?
Etienne Marais says:
ek gaan dalk werk
Etienne Marais says:
en more aand uiteet
Jean says:
Saam met?
Etienne Marais says:
persoon met die naam Jaco Pieterse, van die kerk...
Jean says:
Uh-uh.
Etienne Marais says:
?
Etienne Marais says:
wat gaan jy maak ?
Jean says:
O, niks regtig nie. Ek dog jy gaan saam met 'n girl eet. Is die ou ook
van SA?
Etienne Marais says:
ja, daar gaan girls ook wees
Jean says:
Oh-oh
Etienne Marais says:
haha, nie uiteet nie, nog 'n kersete...
Jean says:
OK. ONs gaan bietjie na Gatecrasher toe - ook 'n klub in Brittanje.
Bietjie Rave
Etienne Marais says:
:0
Jean says:
:0 ???
Etienne Marais says:
iemand het eergisteraand ingebreek by die plek waar ek bly, baie
moeilik geslaap, donker nag jy weet, maar hulle het niks gesteel nie,
net die landlord en my baie ontstel
Etienne Marais says:
(gaping-mouth face)
Jean says:
Nee ek joke net. Bummer! Niks gesteel nie
Etienne Marais says:
hoe bedoel jy niks gesteel nie
Jean says:
Eintlik ? maar toe lees ek jou (gaping-mouth face) en moes eers uitbars
van die lag.
Etienne Marais says:
ok, gesig to gesig is baie beter
Etienne Marais says:
1-2-1 even
Etienne Marais says:
wel, niks is weg nie, maar hulle was in die huis
Jean says:
Most defnitely, kom jy X-Mas terug/
Etienne Marais says:
Etienne Marais says:
ek wil graag my familie sien
Jean says:
So?
Etienne Marais says:
ek dink nie ek sal kan nie
Jean says:
$?
Etienne Marais says:
het geld aan vriend geleen wat deur vrymesselaars probeer betrek word,
deels is, nou kan hy eers nie terugbetaal nie, $! chinge, exactly, maar
net 'n materiel manifestasie van iets anders.....
Jean says:
Hoekom leen jy geld? Aan 'n potensiele vrymesselaar
Etienne Marais says:
goei vraag
Etienne Marais says:
maar, sodoen leen hy nie van hulle nie, hy het 'n mercedes by hulle
gekoop, toe vat hulle dit terug die dag na die demone
Etienne Marais says:
uit my uit gedryf is
Etienne Marais says:
maar
Etienne Marais says:
hulle het nog steeds krag oor sy besigheid (youth hostel vir SAners)
Etienne Marais says:
en maak dit moeilik, ie banksake ens. ens.
Jean says:
daar is mos nie regtig iets soos die vrymesselaars nie is daar? Dis 'n
urban myth
Etienne Marais says:
ja, dis hoekom hulle hier in Covent Garden 'n 'PRAGTIGE' gebou het met
die son in grootste detail en pentagramme op die dak (en maan/sterre op
vloer), alles uitermatiglik kunstig en gebou uit 'hoogste kwaliteit'
boustof en messelware, en hoekom hulle 'n lidmaatskap van meer as 400
000 hier het... hulle draai alles onderstebo jy sien, nogal soos die
duiwel se werk, maar die duiwel is reeds oorwin..
Jean says:
Sounds very screwy to me.
Etienne Marais says:
jy het geen idee nie, maar mens bring dit oor jouself, kyk sommer so
reguit op in die son in jy weet, van my voorouers het dit gedoen toe
dog ek ek sal ook probeer, dan kan ek te minste verstaan wat dit behels
en oordeelkundig besluit, maar die besluit was myne en dit was die
verkeerde een...
Etienne Marais says:
toemaar, ek het nie katte geslag of enige iets boos van die aard nie,
nogtans
Etienne Marais says:
is 'n klein sonde 'n groot sonde want dis 'n rebellie teen God
Jean says:
Stem saam. Vryheid is 'n wonderlike scary ding nie waar nie?
Etienne Marais says:
scary as dit jou weg van God laat draai, soos dit het, daarom verseel
ek myself eerder met God se genade
Jean says:
Verseel teen wat?
Jean says:
Die wereld?
Etienne Marais says:
verseel teen my wilsvermoe om weer van God te kan wegdraai
Etienne Marais says:
en breek met die wereld
Jean says:
Dink jy nie mens moet deel van die wereld wees nie, mens kan nie
jouself afsluit nie.
Etienne Marais says:
presies, daarom die gemeenskap van die heiliges, The team works, maar
nie die een waaraan mense hier rond werk nie, ie krieket in SA of
hierdie neo milletere bewind hier in Engeland nie (http://www.royal-
navy.mod.uk/)
Etienne Marais says:
as jy wil, kyk bietjie die film Purely Belter (Brits, sal DALK daar
uitkom eendag) dan kyk jy wat depressie beteken as jy buite die span
staan...
Etienne Marais says:
nogal soos Daniel in die leekuil gevoel hierso, maar darem is die leeus
se bekke gesluit
Jean says:
Ek ervaar SA se gemeenskappe glad nie so nie. Is dit omdat dit anders
hier (of daar) is?
Etienne Marais says:
Dis anders hier, teengesteld in baie maniere as SA (ons is easygoing en
familiar, hulle is diskreter en familiarity dui op onvermoe om
verwerping te kan vat, ons help mekaar, hulle is self reliant, ons is
'dieslefde' oor werksberoepe en groeperings, hulle is klassisties (uit
ons oe ten minste), ons is meer rassisties maar new-age multikultureel
hulle is tot die indivdue meer Brits as nasie ens ens
Etienne Marais says:
in SA is ons ook teamplayers, spangees baie belangrik, vra Hansie, kan
jy MOONTLIK die Span verraai ten will van jou eie wilsbesluite (wat
dalk beter mag wees), kan jy die span drop, wie drop jy eintlik ????
Jean says:
Ek sien. Ek probeer om nie daaraan te dink nie en so ver moontlik op my
eie aan te gaan. Meestal het mense respek vir jou privaatheid.
Etienne Marais says:
jy is dan gelukkig, dit mag dalk net verander, ding jy die SA kan so
aanhou, wat gaan dit omdraai en HOE, weet jy hoe lyk London, dis 'n
gemors, en dit raak moeiliker want die wet oorheers die wil van die
nasie, en die nasie oorheers die Wil van God
Etienne Marais says:
bowenal, hoe en wanneer sal jy en jou pa 'n goeie verhouding he (en jy
en Mardi, kleef julle mekaar aan, of die een meer die ander) ???
Etienne Marais says:
dis die Wil van God, dat die balans en verhouding herstel word
Jean says:
Ek hou daarvan om te dink dat dit redelik gebalanseerd is. Daar is my
altyd up en downs, maar dit is die lewe...
Etienne Marais says:
dit is die lewe, maar nie Die Lewe nie
Jean says:
Etienne, ek gaan bietjie werk, sal later praat. 'K? Cheerios.
Etienne Marais says:
cheers, lekker werk, en hard werk (net tog nie so vinnig soos hierdie
mense hierso nie !)... oor en uit : ET
Jean says:
Kinship List - Ansela (N.N.) - 24 Nov 2000
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
-------
Relative Relationship
(N.N.),-17768 Spouse of sixth great grandson
BOTHA, Catharina Elizabeth-6208 Spouse of fourth great grandson
BOTHA, Catharina Elizabeth-6208 Fourth great granddaughter
BOTHA, Hester Carolina-21077 Third great granddaughter
BOTHA, Pieter Johannes-6207 Spouse of third great granddaughter
BOTHA, Rudolph Philippus-21210 Spouse of second great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Andries Johannes-17815 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Anna Francina-17691 Eighth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Anna Jacoba Helena-17803 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Anna Jacoba Margaretha-17817 Fifth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Anna Magdalena-17822 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Berindina Johanna-17750 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Catharina Elizabeth-6634 Third great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Catharina Johanna Fredrika-17806 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Catherina Louisa-17755 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Cornelia Johanna-17772 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Cornelia Johanna-17816 Fifth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Diana Alida-17792 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Diederick Arnoldus Gerhardus-6632 Third great grandson
BRUMMER, Diederik Johannes Gerhardus-17804 Fourth great grandson
BRUMMER, Diederik Johannes Gerhardus-17814 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Elizabeth Catharina-17802 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Elsie Aletta Henrietta-17823 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Emanuel Theodorus-17748 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Helena Margaretha-6633 Third great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Hendrik Pieter-17753 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Hendrina Johanna-17751 Seventh great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Hester Elizabeth-17749 Seventh great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Hester-Johanna Jacoba Petronella-17764 Eighth great
granddaughter
BRUMMER, Isabella Petronella-17767 Eighth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Jacobus Johannes-17773 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Jacobus Johannes-17791 Fourth great grandson
BRUMMER, Jacobus Johannes-17812 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Jacobus Johannes-17824 Sixth great grandson
BRUMMER, Jacobus Lewies-17762 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Johann Wichard-6625 Spouse of second great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Johanna Catharina Sophia-17805 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Johanna Samuela-17771 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus-6631 Third great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus-17760 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus-17763 Eighth great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus-17810 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus-17821 Sixth great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Gerhardus (Hans)-17784 Third great grandson
BRUMMER, Johannes Jacobus Wellman-17808 Fourth great grandson
BRUMMER, Martha Maria-17827 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Michiel Johan Wieghard-6635 Third great grandson
BRUMMER, Nicolaas Johannes Everhardus-17811 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Petrus Benjamin-17752 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Rhoda-17769 Sixth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Samuel Johannes Albertus-17813 Fifth great grandson
BRUMMER, Stephanus Johannes-17757 Seventh great grandson
BRUMMER, Susanna Christina-17807 Fourth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Violet-17759 Seventh great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Violet-17761 Eighth great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Wilhelmina Johanna-17756 Seventh great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Zacharia Margaretha-6619 Third great granddaughter
BRUMMER, Zagaria Margaretha-17790 Fourth great granddaughter
CAMPHER, Agnita-9205 Daughter
CAMPHER, Lourens-9214 Spouse
DU PLESSIS, Elsie Francina-18165 Spouse of fifth great grandson
DU PLESSIS, Geertruy Margaretha Sophia-6189 Spouse of second great
grandson
DU PLESSIS, Gesina S.F.W.-18166 Spouse of fifth great grandson
ENGELBRECHT, Aletta Geertruyda-21046 Fifth great granddaughter
ENGELBRECHT, Petrus Rasmus-21082 Spouse of fourth great granddaughter
ERASMUS, Catharina Elizabeth-21079 Fourth great granddaughter
ERASMUS, Johannes Jacobus-21078 Spouse of third great granddaughter
EYKHOFF, Maria Magdalena-9185 Spouse of grandson
GROBLER, Petronella Ingenazina-6201 Spouse of fifth great grandson
HAVENGA, Christiaan Adriaan-21045 Spouse of fifth great granddaughter
HAVENGA, Nicolaas Christina-21047 Sixth great grandson
JOUBERT, Susanna Sophia Elizabeth-6205 Spouse of sixth great grandson
KLOPPERS, Aletta Margaretha Francina-19270 Spouse of sixth great
grandson
KRUGER, Anna Elsie Aletta-17820 Spouse of fifth great grandson
KRUGER, Casper Jan Hendrik-9157 Fourth great grandson
KRUGER, Casper Johannes Hendrik-18162 Fourth great grandson
KRUGER, Gerrit Johannes-19222 Fourth great grandson
KRUGER, Jannetje-Levina Catharina Francina-19218 Fifth great
granddaughter
KRUGER, Stephanus Johannes-9159 Spouse of third great granddaughter
KRUGER, Stephanus Johannes Paulus-9156 Fifth great grandson
LOUBSER, Catharina Louisa-17809 Spouse of fourth great grandson
LOUW, Anna Jacoba Margaretha-17789 Spouse of third great grandson
NIEMAND, Christella-17689 Ninth great granddaughter
NIEMAND, Pieter Jacobus-17690 Ninth great grandson
NIEMAND, Pieter Jacobus-17692 Spouse of eighth great granddaughter
OBERHOLSTER, Abraham-21103 Spouse of great granddaughter
OBERHOLSTER, Elisabeth-21174 Second great granddaughter
OBERHOLSTER, Elsje-21190 Second great granddaughter
OBERHOLSTER, Johannes-21102 Second great grandson
OBERHOLTZER, Cecilia Jacomina-21191 Second great granddaughter
OBERHOLTZER, Jacomina-21209 Second great granddaughter
OBERHOLTZER, Johanna Sophia-21208 Second great granddaughter
PELSER, Elizabeth Catharina Johanna-19221 Spouse of fourth great
grandson
POTGIETER, Frederik Jacobus-19223 Sixth great grandson
POTGIETER, Hermanus Philippus-19217 Spouse of fifth great granddaughter
PREVOT, Maria-21076 Spouse of grandson
PUTTER, Anna Catharina-17694 Great granddaughter
PUTTER, Anna Christina-6206 Third great granddaughter
PUTTER, Anna Elizabeth-17701 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Arnoldus-17697 Great grandson
PUTTER, Catharina Elisabeth-17775 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Diederik Johannes-6190 Second great grandson
PUTTER, Gerrit-9172 Spouse of great granddaughter
PUTTER, Gerrit-9172 Spouse of great granddaughter
PUTTER, Gerrit-9172 Great grandson
PUTTER, Jan Lodewyk-5955 Spouse of granddaughter
PUTTER, Johanna Alida-17698 Great granddaughter
PUTTER, Johannes Diederyk-6191 Spouse of great granddaughter
PUTTER, Johannes Diederyk-6191 Great grandson
PUTTER, Johannes Gerhardus-17700 Second great grandson
PUTTER, Lodewyk Arnoldus-17779 Second great grandson
PUTTER, Margaretha Sophia-6193 Third great granddaughter
PUTTER, Maria-17695 Great granddaughter
PUTTER, Maria Jacomina-17777 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Maria Magdalena-9164 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Maria Magdalena-17702 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Martha Christina-17780 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Sophia Jacoba-17778 Second great granddaughter
PUTTER, Zacharia-17693 Great granddaughter
PUTTER, Zacharia Margaretha-6618 Second great granddaughter
ROBBERTSE, Daniel Jacobus-6194 Spouse of third great granddaughter
ROBBERTSE, Joseph Jacobus-6197 Fourth great grandson
ROBBERTSE, Joseph Jacobus-6197 Spouse of fourth great granddaughter
ROBBERTSE, Paul Magiel-6204 Sixth great grandson
ROBBERTSE, Pieter Johannes-6200 Fifth great grandson
SMITH, Christina Isabella-17766 Spouse of seventh great grandson
STEENKAMP, Casper Jan Hendrik-9163 Spouse of second great granddaughter
STEENKAMP, Sophia Margaretha-9160 Third great granddaughter
STEYN, Elsie Francina-9158 Spouse of fourth great grandson
STEYN, Elsie Francina-18163 Spouse of fourth great grandson
VAN DER SWAAN, Anna-6617 Granddaughter
VAN DER SWAAN, Gerrit-6340 Spouse of daughter
VAN WIJK, Agnita Elisabeth-17801 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Anna-21104 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Anna Cecilia-17835 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Arie Willem-21207 Great grandson
VAN WIJK, Catharina Elizabeth-6192 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Catharina Elizabeth-6192 Spouse of great grandson
VAN WIJK, Christina Magdalena-17836 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Christoffel Hendrik-17838 Great grandson
VAN WIJK, Elsie-21206 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Gerrit Mathijs-17819 Great grandson
VAN WIJK, Jacoba-17829 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Jacomina-17828 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Maria Elizabeth-21182 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Maria Margaretha-17800 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Martha Elisabeth-17837 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Sophia-17699 Great granddaughter
VAN WIJK, Sophia-17699 Spouse of great grandson
VAN WYK, Arie-9040 Spouse of daughter
VAN WYK, Gerrit-9184 Grandson
VAN WYK, Sophia-9173 Great granddaughter
VAN WYK, Sophia-9173 Spouse of great grandson
"jgj" skryf in boodskap news:8%mT5.1702$GW5.12362@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Mel wrote in message
> Ek gebruik self FP2000 om die basiese uitleg vir my bladsye te doen, die
> "WYSIWYG" help baie.Daarna laai ek die site in Visual Interdev 6.0 en doen
> die res van die ontwerp daar.
Lucky you... I must lay my hands on a copy of that... but I will have to
"borrow" it, because I have no surplus funds for sware... :-(
> Die groot probleem kom in sodra jy bladsye ontwerp wat van 'style sheets'
> gebruik maak(soos joune) en wat Javascipt gebruik. Die DOM(Document Object
> Model) verskil tussen IE en NC. Dus, bladsye wat in FP ontwerp word maak
> slegs voorsiening vir IE se DOM, en funksioneer glad nie in NC nie.
What a bitch!! Yeah... I guess I am just lazy then... I just wish there was
1 standard... but I think also that the IE standard nets 95-98% of my
visitors... I think Netscape is dead... it was the innovator ...
> Dit is nie dat ek die web-tuiste afmaak as nikswerd nie, ek is seker dat dit
> groot aantrek kry, jy het rede om trots te wees.(so tussen al die kak
praat)
Yep.. thanks... u should go browse the forums... there are some crazy ppl
there... some of them actually LIKE me... that confirms their insanity,
right? :-)
> Ek het self in Kaapstad gebly, 'n ruk in Tamboerskloof en toe in Houtbaai.
> Ek is baie lief vir die plek en verlang soms na die goeie dae daar!
They are still waiting for you... just make the decision... :-)
Ciao sweetie :-)
-------------- www.AdderleyStreet.co.za ---------------
Yusuf is my best friend on email. Love ya Yusuf! Sweetie! :-)
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This site is about meeting people, making friends, and having fun! :-)
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