Sorry dat ek 'n nuwe draad begin, Ek moet google gebruik om te pos en
hy wil nie nou dat ek direk reply nie.
Booner
Ek kan nie anders as om in die groot lyne saam met jou te stem nie,
want jy redeneer nou op 'n goeie en vriendelike manier.
Ek stem aan die een kant saam met jou dat ons ook as agressors beskou
kan word, aangesien ons in hulle grondgebied was. Dit is eintlik 'n
punt waarop nog lank gedebateer kan word en ek dink nie dat ek genoeg
tyd daarvoor gaan hê nie. As ons dan terug gaan in die geskiedenis,
kan ons net sowel nog verder teruggaan. Wie se grond was dit nou
eintlik? Waar kom die stam/volk/mense vandaan? En wie was dalk nog
voor hulle daar? Deur die eeue heen is die plek deur verskillende
volke bewoon en het mekaar deur oorlog (of ander maniere) weggedryf.
En dit is nie beperk tot Suid-Afrika nie, maar die hele wereld. Dus as
ons daarmee begin kan ons maklik (hoef nie, maar kan wel) sê die hele
wereld, christen, moslem, hindu of wat ook al, het verkeerd gedoen en
is dus skuldig aan mense verdryf, of hulle nou gebid het of nie. Dit
het in Europa gebeur, in Asie, in Amerika (noord en suid) en in
Afrika, om nie te praat van alle eilande regoor die wereld nie.
Ek trek alles nou nogal ver en wil dit dan as volg saamvat (volgens my
sieninge):
Ja, die boere was in zoeloe grondgebeid. (Dus was hulle verkeerd).
Maar die munt het twee kante:
- Hulle was onderdruk in die kaap deur die engelse
- Hulle wou vrede sluit met die zoeloes en ander stamme (dink aan Piet
Retief)
Enigste opsie wat oorgebly het was om hulleself te verdedig en omdat
hulle Christene was het hulle daaroor gebid. En as jy dink dat hulle
nogal in die minderheid was, het hulle hulself goed verdedig.
Kom ons probeer iets anders: Sê nou die voortrekkers was Hindus(of
msolems of buddiste, maak nie saak nie) en hulle het vir hulle hindu
god gebid op daardie dag, dan het ons nou gedebateer oor diehindu
geloof of dalk nie?
Ek is oop vir nog voorstelle as jy dit goed kan ondersteun. Ek sien jy
sê nie net klomp goed sonder om daaragter te staan nie.
En ek stem ook heeltemal saam met wat jy sê oor dat "almal nie ewe
geliewe kinders is" nie. Maar ek moet daar by sê dat hulle dan nie
ware kinders van my Here is nie. En ek dink die meeste voortrekkers
was wel.
Soos die hollanders sê: Prettige feestdagen (Ek dink jy sal dit seker
meer waardeer as gesêende kersfees?)
Na die droewige einde aan die 1ste toets het ons iets nodig om die
krieketmoreel hoog te hou ....
(Anti - ek verskaf dit in Engels sodat jou gesin hierin kan deel ....)
**********************************************
IF YOU LIKE CRICKET U WILL LOVE THESE!
1. Rod Marsh & Ian Botham: When Botham took guard in an Ashes match, Marsh
welcomed him to The wicket with the immortal words: "So how's your wife &
my kids?"
2. Daryll Cullinan & Shane Warne: As Cullinan was on his way to the wicket,
Warne told him he had been waiting 2 years for another chance to humiliate
him. "Looks Like you spent it eating," Cullinan retorted.
3. Glenn McGrath & Eddo Brandes: After Brandes played & missed at a McGrath
delivery, the Aussie Bowler politely enquired: "Oi, Brandes, why are you so
fat?" "Cos every time I f... your wife she gives me a biscuit," Brandes
replied.
4. Robin Smith & Merv Hughes: During 1989 Lords Test Hughes said to Smith
after he played & missed: "You can't f...ing bat".
Smith to Hughes after he smacked him to the boundary: "Hey Merv, we make a
fine pair. I can't f...ing bat & you can't f...ing bowl."
5. Merv Hughes & Javed Miandad: During 1991 Adelaide Test, Javed called
Merv a fat bus conductor. A few balls latter Merv dismissed Javed: "Tickets
please", Merv called out as he ran past the departing batsman.
6. Merv Hughes & Viv Richards: During a test match in the West Indies,
Hughes didn't say a Word to Viv, but continued to stare at him after
deliveries. "This is my island, my culture. Don't you be staring at me? In
my culture we just bowl." Merv didn't reply, but after he dismissed him he
announced to the batsman: "In my culture we just say f... off."
7. Ricky Ponting & Shaun Pollock: After going past the outside edge with a
couple of deliveries, Pollock told Ponting: "It's red, round & weighs about
5 ounces." Unfortunately for Pollock, the next ball was hammered out of the
ground. Ponting to Pollock: "you know what it looks like, now go find it."
8. And of course you can't forget Ian Healy's legendary comment which was
picked up by the Channel microphones when Arjuna Ranatunga called for a
runner on a particularly hot night during a one dayer in Sydney.."You don't
get a Runner for being an overweight, unfit, fat Bastard!!!"
9. Can't remember the player or the exact details but went something like
Mark Waugh standing at second slip, the new player to the crease playing &
missing the first ball. Mark - "Ohh, I remember you from a couple years ago
in Australia. You were shit then, you're f...ing useless now". Kiwi -
(Turning around) - "Yeah, that's me & when I was there you were going out
with that old, ugly slut & now I hear you've married her. You dumb bastard".
Engels, engels - alles engels - in ons kerke en ons skole word ons
Moedertaal vermoor .... (En nou gebeur dit ook op die net.....)
Vir die manne in Noord Amerika en die plakkers onder die ou Groot Skaduboom
....
*****************
Andy Rooney said on 60 minutes a few weeks back: (for those of you that
don't know Andy Rooney, he is an 82 year old US TV commentator)
I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except
numbers.
The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like
the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television,
and Miss Black America.
Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine,
White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens.
Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can
kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you
from driving to the ball game.
I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are
no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA
BURKE?
I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is
an opinion. I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off.
When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of
the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of
Probability.
I believe that if you are selling me a milk shake, a pack of cigarettes, a
newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact,
if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!
My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries
you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should
have every right to shoot your sorry self if you threaten them after they
tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in
English, see the above lines.
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are
qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or
tax breaks, etc, so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any
other business. We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and
risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they
could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and
open to their interpretations.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor. I know pro wrestling is fake,
but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them.
I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue
to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system
that's better, and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy who
invented the Internet to help you. (Al)
It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a
parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when
necessary, and say "NO!" I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want
them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please,
stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly
infected mouth as you serve me french fries!
I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not
a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be
"African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around
saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great,
great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and
nowhere else.
And if you don't like my point of view, tough. DON'T PASS IT ON!! {But I did
like it, so I did pass it on.}
Lees weer: Het hulle gebid vir duisende ander om te sterf of het die
duisende ander wat gesterf het hulle aangeval?
Soos ek die storie verstaan het die boere hulleself verdedig. Dit
beteken hulle het op een plek bly staan en nie die ander aangeval nie.
As ek weet jy kom op my af met wapens en 'n missie om my te kom
doodmaak, sal ek ook bid dat die Here my beskerm en ek sal myself
voorberei om my tot die dood te verdedig om jou dit jou bedoeling is
om my dood te maak. Dit gaan dus hier nie om oog vir oog nie maar om
verdediging en beskerming van eie lewe.
As die voortrekker beweeg het om die Zoeloe's te gaan aanval was dit
'n heeltemal ander verhaal gewees.
Die stormloop na kos en geskenke op die Madiba-Kerspartytjie gebeur
omdat dié jaarlikse geleentheid 'n soort pelgrimstog vir armes geword
het. Só het mnr. Archie Tsoku, sake-ontwikkelingsbestuurder van die
Nelson Mandela-kinderfonds (NMK), Sondag gesê. Dubbel soveel mense het
Sondag opgedaag as waarvoor daar voorsiening gemaak is en die partytjie
is op die nipper uitgestel.
Gesien op die Vlaamse Tv,baie triestige tafereel....
Soos Maria haar Seun vertroetel het
druk ek my kindjie aan my bors.
O Inkosi Jesu, o Inkosi Jesu.
Ek voel sy lewe en sy krag
en sy asemhaling stil en sag,
O Inkosi Jesu, o inkosi Jesu.
Ek hoor my mense sing hul lied,
O inkosi Jesu, o Inkosi Jesu.
Die ruising van die vaal ou gras
wieg Hom sag in lieflike drome,
O inkosi Jesu, o inkosi Jesu.
Die kafferboom hef sy arms omhoog,
vol van lof vir U alleen,
O inkosi Jesu, o inkosi Jesu.
O gee ons krag, o gee ons hoop,
maar boweal U liefde,
O inkosi Jesu, o inkosi Jesu.
Ek lees dat in die Dihlabeng Munisipaliteit by Bethlehem is daar 'n 4x4
voertuig wat as 'n poelmotor gebruik word en 'n brandstofverbruik van 103
liter petrol per KILOMETER het! As mens nou in ag neem dat 'n Boing 747
sowat 20 liter brandstof per kilometer nodig het en 'n diesel lokomotief 1
liter per km, dan is dié 4x4 effe swaar op brandstof. Die logiese
gevolgtrekking om te maak is sekerlik om te kyk hoeveel privaatkarre word
uit daai 4x4 petrol gegee [en hoe bleddie stupid kan amptenare wees om te
dink dat hulle met so iets kan wegkom], maar dan wag ons vir die volgende
Gloudisme: 'Ag julle apartheidsvarke het in julle jare ook petrol
gesteel - moenie nou dié mense veroordeel nie.'
"petrus" skryf in boodskap news:cpqn8u$9e8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Here we stand, before the Holy God of heaven and earth,to make to Him a
> vow that, if He will protect us
>
Hans Willem:
Ai tog Petrus - ken jy vir vir Frikkie ? Frikkie Potgieter ?
Hierdie "gelofte" is 'n ding waarmee ek al vir jare mee wroeg. Teologies,
meen ek, is dit onhaalbaar en onverdedigbaar. Die blote gedagte dat EEN
mens NAMENS ALMAL in
Suid Afrika 'n belofte aan God sou doen, gaan nie af in my boekie nie.
Soos dat MY familie nie eens NABY Bloedrivier sou gewees het nie, Dis
aanmatigend in enige taal. Maar toe ontmoet ek 'n kleinkind van oubaas
Sarel - die "gelofte" Sarel. Ek kwoteer hom verbatim : (Die prof Uys is
van Bloemfontein baie jare gelede)
"Prof Uys se standpunt was dat die Gelofte by Sarel Cilliers se sterfbed
deur Gerdener opgeteken is. Dat die oubaas se geheue nie meer te helder was
nie, is vanselfsprekend. Dat Gerdener as predikant die herinneringe in
kanseltaal sou giet, is net so vanselfsprekend.
Prof Uys het trouens gemeen dat die Gelofte soos hy opgeteken is moontlik
die *gees* van daardie oorspronklike gebed weergegee het, indien dan nie
die presiese woorde nie.
Die probleem is dat die Gelofte vóór Gerdener nêrens opgeteken is nie. Die
oumense het voor in hul Statebybels gewoonlik al die tersaaklike
besonderhede van die familie opgeteken. Toe ek Matriek was, kon ek
byvoorbeeld maklik my hele familiegeskiedenis tot by die Voortrekker
terugspoor.
Ek weet nie van 'n Bybel waarin die oorspronklike Gelofte opgeteken is soos
'n mens dit sou verwag het nie. Wat my die meeste bekommer is dat die
Cilliers-tak van Lindley ná Gerdener se boek oënskynlik alle bewysstukke
wat die teendeel kon bewys stil-stil laat verdwyn het om die
Cilliers-kultus onbesmet voort te sit.
Ek probeer bloot on 'n realis te wees"
Einde van aanhaling - wat die man sê, is bloot dat Gerdener die geleentheid
benut het om 'n volk te kaap vir sy eie sienings. Hierdie storie het 'n
permanente "rift" in die Cilliers familie tweeggebring. Ek glo die
"gelofte" net so min as wat ek glo die maan is van kaas gemaak en ek beskou
my nie
gebonde aan iets wat iemand bedink het nie. Die iemand is GBA Gerdener.
Die aksie is bekend - kerkleiers en politici wat die "volk" laat glo het
volgens "binnekamer" besluite.
Die ander kant van die muntstuk, dat die paar Voortrekkers se oorwinning by
Bloedrivier TOG 'n wonderwerk was, ondersteun ek heelharting maar die kultus
van die "gelofte" verwerp ek Dit was Gerdener se twak.
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