Tuis » Taal » Language Help/ Taalhulp/ Sprachhilfe » If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages
| If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4283] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 10:06  |
Marcelo Bruno
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Hello,
I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
10) I should have walked to school.
11) I should have driven to school.
12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
rain.
15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
building.
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4286 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4283] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 15:22  |
Cornelius
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Go to this url: http://www.freetranslation.com/
"Marcelo Bruno" skryf in boodskap news:5f709a92.0403240206.5ad124fc@posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
>
> 1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
>
> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
>
> 3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
>
> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
>
> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
>
> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
>
> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
>
> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
>
> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
>
> 10) I should have walked to school.
>
> 11) I should have driven to school.
>
> 12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
>
> 13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
>
> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
> rain.
>
> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
> building.
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4290 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4283] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 17:35 |
Paula
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br...@ece.cmu.edu (Marcelo Bruno) skryf in boodskap news:...
> Hello,
>
> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
>
> 1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
As dit reén sal ek skool toe ry.
> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
As dit nie reën nie, sal ek skool toe stap
> 3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
As dit gereën het, sou ek skool toe gestap het.
> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
As dit nie gereën het nie sou ek skool toe gestap het.
> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
As dit gereën het, sou ek skool toe gery het.
> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe gestap het.
> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
As dit sou reën sou ek skool toe moes ry.
> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
>
As dit nie gereën het nie sou ek skool toe kon gestap het.
> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe kon stap.
> 10) I should have walked to school.
Ek moes skool toe gestap het.
> 11) I should have driven to school.
Ek moes skool toe gery het.
> 12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
Ek moet skool toe ry omdat dit reën.
> 13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
Wanneer dit reën moet die karre binne die gebou parkeer word.
> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
> rain.
Die kar moes buite parkeer word, tenspyte van die reën.
> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
> building.
As dit sou gereën het, moes alle karre binne die gebou parkeer word.
>
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Although I'm not an expert, this effort was n great pleasure! :-)
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4293 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4286] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 18:24 |
DD
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Nou waarom, Kerneels, kon jy dit nie maar vir hom doen nie?
Van wanneer af is daardie vertalingsmasjiene sò gebruikersvriendelik?
DD
in dié geval glad nie gebruikersvriendelik nie.
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:22:49 GMT, "Cornelius" wrote:
> Go to this url: http://www.freetranslation.com/
>
> "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> news:5f709a92.0403240206.5ad124fc@posting.google.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
>> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
>> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
>> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
>>
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4294 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4290] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 18:27 |
DD
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On 24 Mar 2004 09:35:28 -0800, pau...@ananzi.co.za (Paula) wrote:
> br...@ece.cmu.edu (Marcelo Bruno) skryf in boodskap news:...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
>> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
>> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
>> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
>>
>> 1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
>
> As dit reén sal ek skool toe ry.
>
>> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
>
> As dit nie reën nie, sal ek skool toe stap
>
>> 3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
>
> As dit gereën het, sou ek skool toe gestap het.
>
>> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
>
> As dit nie gereën het nie sou ek skool toe gestap het.
>
>> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
>
> As dit gereën het, sou ek skool toe gery het.
>
>> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
>
> As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe gestap het.
>
>> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
>
> As dit sou reën sou ek skool toe moes ry.
>
>> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
>>
> As dit nie gereën het nie sou ek skool toe kon gestap het.
>
>> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
>
> As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe kon stap.
>
>> 10) I should have walked to school.
>
> Ek moes skool toe gestap het.
>
>> 11) I should have driven to school.
>
> Ek moes skool toe gery het.
>
>> 12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
>
> Ek moet skool toe ry omdat dit reën.
>
>> 13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
>
> Wanneer dit reën moet die karre binne die gebou parkeer word.
>
>> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
>> rain.
>
> Die kar moes buite parkeer word, tenspyte van die reën.
>
>> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
>> building.
>
> As dit sou gereën het, moes alle karre binne die gebou parkeer word.
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Although I'm not an expert, this effort was n great pleasure! :-)
dit klink asof Marcello Bruno in 'n nat wêreld woon, Paula:-)
DD
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4296 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4283] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 20:12 |
Thorsten Siebenborn
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Marcelo Bruno wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
> West Germanic languages.
> I would appreciate then if you could possibly
> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German.
German.
> The sentences are
>
> 1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
Wenn es regnet, werde ich zur Schule fahren.
> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
Wenn es nicht regnet, werde ich zur Schule laufen.
("zur Schule gehen" would mean that you are a pupil).
> 3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
Wenn es geregnet hätte, wäre ich zur Schule gefahren.
> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
Wenn es nicht geregnet hätte, wäre ich zur Schule gelaufen.
>
> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.=
Wenn es geregnet haben würde, dann wäre ich zur Schule gefahren.
> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
Wenn es nicht geregnet haben würde, dann wäre ich zur Schule gelaufen.
> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
Wenn es geregnet haben würde, dann würde ich zur Schule fahren müssen.
> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
Wenn es nicht geregnet haben würde, dann wäre es möglich gewesen,
zur Schule zu laufen.
> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
Wenn es nicht geregnet haben würde, dann hätte ich zur Schule
laufen können.
> 10) I should have walked to school.
Ich hätte zur Schule laufen sollen.
> 11) I should have driven to school.
Ich hätte zur Schule fahren sollen.
>
> 12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
Ich muss zur Schule fahren weil es regnet.
> 13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
Wenn es regnet, müssen Autos im Gebäude geparkt werden.
> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
> rain.
Das Auto hätte auÃerhalb des Gebäudes geparkt werden sollen trotz
des Regens.
> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
> building.
Wenn es geregnet haben würde, dann hätten alle Autos innerhalb des
Gebäudes geparkt werden müssen.
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
No problem. The use of "können","sollen" und "müssen" is in German
rather complex, so don't be astonished by the different use.
And it is not German of an linguistic expert, so it is possible
that some sentences may induce cries of pain.
HTH
Thorsten
--
Bitte Reply-To: unverändert verwenden; die Adresse ist gültig.
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4299 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4296] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 20:51 |
Stefan Doll
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Thorsten Siebenborn wrote:
> Marcelo Bruno wrote:
[...]
>> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
>
> Wenn es nicht regnet, werde ich zur Schule laufen.
> ("zur Schule gehen" would mean that you are a pupil).
I think in this case "werde ich zu Fuà zur Schule gehen"
would be more likely to be used. Not sure whether that helps
for the verb comparison, though.
Cheers
Stefan
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4300 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4283] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 21:13 |
Roely
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"Marcelo Bruno" skryf in boodskap news:5f709a92.0403240206.5ad124fc@posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
>
> 1) If it rains, I will drive to school.
Als het regent, rijd ik naar school (with a car or bus: Als het regent, ga
ik met de auto/bus naar school)
>
> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
Als het niet regent, loop ik naar school.
If 1) and 2) are one sentence, the translation is: Als het regent rijd ik
naar school, maar als het niet regent ga ik lopen.
>
> 3) If it rained, I would drive to school.
Als het zou regenen, zou ik naar school rijden.
>
> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
Als het niet zou regenen, zou ik naar school lopen.
>
> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
Als het geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gereden.
>
> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gelopen.
>
> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
Als het geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school hebben moeten rijden.
>
> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school hebben kunnen lopen.
>
> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gelopen.
>
> 10) I should have walked to school.
Ik zou naar school hebben moeten lopen.
>
> 11) I should have driven to school.
Ik zou naar school hebben moeten rijden.
>
> 12) I must drive to school because it is raining.
Ik moet naar school rijden, omdat het regent.
>
> 13) When it rains, cars must be parked inside the building.
Als het regent moeten auto's in het gebouw geparkeerd worden .
>
> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
> rain.
Ondanks de regen moet de auto buiten het gebouw geparkeerd worden.
>
> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
> building.
Als het geregend zou hebben, zouden alle auto's in het gebouw geparkeerd
hebben moeten worden.
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Okay, you're welcome.
Roely
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4302 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4299] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 21:32 |
Thorsten Siebenborn
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Stefan Doll wrote:
> Thorsten Siebenborn wrote:
>> Marcelo Bruno wrote:
>>>
>>> 2) If it doesn't rain, I will walk to school.
>>
>> Wenn es nicht regnet, werde ich zur Schule laufen.
>> ("zur Schule gehen" would mean that you are a pupil).
>
> I think in this case "werde ich zu Fuà zur Schule gehen"
> would be more likely to be used.
Nebenbemerkung:
Ja, diese Form ist mir natürlich nicht eingefallen. :-)
Auch ein anderes Verb wie "schlendern" wäre möglich.
> Not sure whether that helps for the verb comparison, though.
If someone translate the sentences as near as possible to the
original form, they may be correct from the semantic point
of view and the construction is easy to understand (?), but noone
speaks German like that. Especially the longer forms like
"I would have had to drive" ->
"hätte ich [...} würden fahren müssen."
....no, after the third verb most people would have forgotten
what they want to say. :-)
GrüÃe
Thorsten
--
Bitte Reply-To: unverändert verwenden; die Adresse ist gültig.
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4307 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4300] |
Thu, 25 March 2004 16:06 |
Nantko Schanssema
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"Roely" :
> "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> news:5f709a92.0403240206.5ad124fc@posting.google.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm intererested in comparing the use of modal verbs in different
>> West Germanic languages. I would appreciate then if you could possibly
>> translate the following sentences respectively into *standard*
>> Afrikaans, Dutch (Netherlandic), and German. The sentences are
[snip]
>> 5) If it had rained, I would have driven to school.
>
> Als het geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gereden.
I'd say:
Als het geregend had, zou ik naar school zijn gereden.
>> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
> Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gelopen.
And:
Als het niet geregend had, zou ik naar school zijn gelopen.
Same for 7 and 8.
>> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
>
> Als het geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school hebben moeten rijden.
>>
>> 8) If it hadn't rained, I would have been able to walk to school.
>
> Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school hebben kunnen lopen.
I'd prefer:
Als het niet geregend had, had ik naar school kunnen lopen.
>> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
>
> Als het niet geregend zou hebben, zou ik naar school zijn gelopen.
>>
>> 10) I should have walked to school.
>
> Ik zou naar school hebben moeten lopen.
I'd prefer:
Ik had naar school moeten lopen.
>> 11) I should have driven to school.
>
> Ik zou naar school hebben moeten rijden.
I'd prefer:
Ik had naar school moeten rijden.
[snip]
>> 15) If it had rained, all cars would have had to be parked inside the
>> building.
>
> Als het geregend zou hebben, zouden alle auto's in het gebouw geparkeerd
> hebben moeten worden.
I'd drop the word 'hebben'.
Note that Roely's sentences are correct, but slightly bookish.
regards,
Nantko
--
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
explained by stupidity.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~nantko/
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| Re: If-clauses and Modals in West Germanic languages [boodskap #4313 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #4290] |
Sat, 27 March 2004 05:24 |
Marcelo Bruno
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Paula,
Thank you for your reply. I only have a few additional questions (I
apologize in advance if they may sound stupid).
pau...@ananzi.co.za (Paula) skryf in boodskap news:...
>
>> 4) If it didn't rain, I would walk to school.
>
> As dit nie gereën het nie sou ek skool toe gestap het.
>
>> 6) If it hadn't rained, I would have walked to school.
>
> As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe gestap het.
So, is there no difference in Afrikaans between "I would walk" and
"I would have walked" ? Such distinction is made in other related
languages, e.g. Dutch and German. Intuitively, I would imagine
Ek sou ry = I would drive
Ek sou gery het = I would have driven
>> 7) If it had rained, I would have had to drive to school.
>
> As dit sou reën sou ek skool toe moes ry.
Following your previous example, could one also say "As dit gerëen
het, [...]"
? Again, by analogy, wouldn't "as dit sou reën" be closer to "if it
would rain" = "if it rained" ? Also, could one say "as dit reën
sou,[...]" instead of "as dit sou reën,[...]"?
Interestingly, the Dutch equivalent for (7) according to Roely is
(a) "Als het geregend had, zou ik naar school hebben moeten rijden."
which is also similar to the German sentence
(b) "Wenn es geregnet hätte, hätte ich zur Schule fahren müssen".
In Afrikaans, you seem to replace the double infinitive construction
(e.g. "hebben moeten") with a preterite form (e.g. "moes"). If we
apply the
same rule to
>> 9) If it hadn't rained, I could have walked to school.
(German: wenn es nicht geregnet hätte, hätte ich zur Schule laufen
können.
Dutch: als het niet geregend had, had ik naar school kunnen lopen
[or (informant) "[...], zou ik naar school hebben kunnen lopen"] ),
we would get
(c) "As dit nie gereën het nie, sou ek skool toe kon stap"
In this case, the double infinitive "hebben kunnen" would turn into
the preterite form "kon". Is sentence (c) possible in standard
Afrikaans ?
>> 11) I should have driven to school.
>
> Ek moes skool toe gery het.
Unfortunately, your examples (10) and (11) violate the nice rule I
was trying to infer from the previous examples. Roely said the Dutch
equivalent to (11) is
"Ik zou naar school hebben moeten rijden" (or, I guess, one could say
"ik had naar school moeten rijden")
An Afrikaans equivalent using the (double infinitive > preterite) rule
would be
* Ek sou skool toe moes rij.
Is such a sentence possible in Afrikaans ?
>> 14) The car must have been parked outside the building despite the
>> rain.
>
> Die kar moes buite parkeer word, tenspyte van die reën.
Is the past participle of "parkeer" also "parkeer", or is it
"geparkeer"? How would you say "the car had to be parked" ? Could you
distinguish between
"had to be parked" and "would have had to be parked" ?
Thanks again,
Marcelo Bruno
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