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MTN [boodskap #104141] Wo, 29 Junie 2005 11:35 na volgende boodskap
Deneile  is tans af-lyn  Deneile
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Ek sien Empty N se 3G advertensie veldtog het ook nou begin, net toe Vodacom
'n reeks verskillende 3G pakkette bekendstel. Nogal billik maar die caps is
'n bietjie knap. Hulle kan Telkom se ASDL nog meer komptisie gee. Kry mens
nog nie 'n 3G PCI poort vir jou desktop nie?

Deneile
Re: MTN [boodskap #104143 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104141] Wo, 29 Junie 2005 14:57 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Max  is tans af-lyn  Max
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Het enigiemand wat so afgaan oor die "kompetisie" tussen Geldkom en
MTN/Vodacom al ooit die moeite gedoen om te kyk hoeveel Telkom verdien aan
MTN/Vodacom?

Hoeveel aandele het Telkom in MTN/Vodacom? Is hier iemand op hierdie groep
wat weet?

Die wie het sal nog bykry. En van die wie nie het nie, sal hulle laaste
bietjie ook weggevat word...

"Deneile" skryf in boodskap news:d9u11i$k19$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Ek sien Empty N se 3G advertensie veldtog het ook nou begin, net toe Vodacom
> 'n reeks verskillende 3G pakkette bekendstel. Nogal billik maar die caps is
> 'n bietjie knap. Hulle kan Telkom se ASDL nog meer komptisie gee. Kry mens
> nog nie 'n 3G PCI poort vir jou desktop nie?
>
> Deneile
>
Re: MTN [boodskap #104145 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104141] Wo, 29 Junie 2005 19:09 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
knersus  is tans af-lyn  knersus
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Ja, Vodacom het een bekend gestel. Gaan kyk by http://www.vodacom.co.za/ Dis
op hulle voorblad. As jy belangstel, lees ook die Vodacom en MTN forums by
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/ Mens kry ook 'n PCMCIA-omsetter vir die
PCI-bus waarin jy die standaard PCMCIA-toestel kan inprop.

Prysgewys is hulle nie kompetisie vir Telkom nie. Dit kos BAIE meer per GB op
die selfoonnetwerke as op ADSL. ADSL is ook stabieler. 3G/Edge is eintlik op
'n ander tipe gebruiker gemik as die ADSL-gebruiker. Nieteen lyk dit in elk
geval of die meeste Vodacom gebruikers baie tevrede is met hul produk, veral as
jy dit met MyWireless en iBurst vergelyk.

Deneile wrote:
> Ek sien Empty N se 3G advertensie veldtog het ook nou begin, net toe Vodacom
> 'n reeks verskillende 3G pakkette bekendstel. Nogal billik maar die caps is
> 'n bietjie knap. Hulle kan Telkom se ASDL nog meer komptisie gee. Kry mens
> nog nie 'n 3G PCI poort vir jou desktop nie?

--
_______
| OSCAR |
|KNERSUS|
|_&_KIE_|
Re: MTN [boodskap #104163 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104143] Vr, 01 Julie 2005 07:05 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Pieter Rautenbach  is tans af-lyn  Pieter Rautenbach
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Volle Lid
Die laaste wat ek gehoor het was dat Vodacom 'n 49% aandeel in Telkom
het.

Groete
Pieter
Re: MTN [boodskap #104164 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104163] Vr, 01 Julie 2005 08:31 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Max  is tans af-lyn  Max
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Vir die sekerheid, het Vodacom 49% van die Telkom aandele, of het Telkom 49%
van die Vodacom aandele? :-)

Dankie vir die antwoord (Dit kom ooreen met wat ek van Telkomwerker gehoor
het, voor ek uit SA weg is.)

Nou moet iemand nog net aan ons vertel hoeveel van MTN deur Telkom besit
word...

En dan kan dié wat 2 en 2 bymekaar kan sit miskien beter sien hoe groot
Telkom se Monopoly nou eintlik is. En dat jy nie Telkom boikot deur mobiel
te bel nie... Inteendeel, ek dink dat as jy al die koperdiefstal in ag neem,
dat Telkom meer wins maak uit die selnetwerke, as uit hulle landlyne...

"Pieter Rautenbach" wrote in message
news:1120201555.455216.227240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com.. .
> Die laaste wat ek gehoor het was dat Vodacom 'n 49% aandeel in Telkom
> het.
>
> Groete
> Pieter
>
Re: MTN [boodskap #104169 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104164] Vr, 01 Julie 2005 10:42 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Pieter Rautenbach  is tans af-lyn  Pieter Rautenbach
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Volle Lid
Ekskuus, ek was oorhaastig: Telkom het 'n meerderheidsaandeel in
Vodacom nl. 51%. So ek het twee foute gemaak. :-)

Groete
Pieter
Re: MTN [boodskap #104170 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104169] Vr, 01 Julie 2005 11:54 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Max  is tans af-lyn  Max
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Die punt wat ek wou maak is dat jy nie Telkom kan boikot deur op jou selfoon
te internet nie... Die punt het jy pragtig gestaaf, ek gaan nie moan oor 2%
meer of minder nie...

"Pieter Rautenbach" wrote in message
news:1120214576.531648.227940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com.. .
> Ekskuus, ek was oorhaastig: Telkom het 'n meerderheidsaandeel in
> Vodacom nl. 51%. So ek het twee foute gemaak. :-)
>
> Groete
> Pieter
>
Re: MTN [boodskap #104188 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104143] Ma, 04 Julie 2005 20:49 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
NoS...[3]  is tans af-lyn  NoS...[3]
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Junior Lid
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:57:24 +0200, "Max" wrote:

> Hoeveel aandele het Telkom in MTN/Vodacom? Is hier iemand op hierdie groep
> wat weet?

Telkom is 'n 50% aandeelhouer in Vodacom, maar het geen aandeelhouding
in MTN nie. Dis 'n lesensie-voorwaarde dat die netwerke nie oor en
weer aandeelhouding mag he nie, as ek reg onthou.

Maar onthou altyd die volgende: Toe die selfoon-lisensies in 1994
toegeken is, was daar gese daar is 'n informele ooreenkoms dat
selfoon-tariewe nooit minder as Telkom-tariewe mag wees nie. Dit was
die voorwaarde wat Telkom glo gestel het om saam te gaan met die die
nuwe selfoon-netwerke. Dit was om hom te beskerm anders het almal
selfone gekry en Telkom-konneksies gekanselleer. Hoekom sou hulle nie?
Daardie tyd moes jy maande wag vir 'n Telkom-foon terwyl 'n selfoon
binne ure joune was.
Re: MTN [boodskap #104189 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104169] Ma, 04 Julie 2005 20:50 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
NoS...[3]  is tans af-lyn  NoS...[3]
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Junior Lid
On 1 Jul 2005 03:42:56 -0700, "Pieter Rautenbach"
wrote:

> Ekskuus, ek was oorhaastig: Telkom het 'n meerderheidsaandeel in
> Vodacom nl. 51%. So ek het twee foute gemaak. :-)

Ja. Met iets soo 30% dan aan Vodafone en die res verdeel onder groepe
soos Transnet as ek dit nie mis het nie.

Dit behoort op hul weksite te wees. Dis nie geheime nie.
Re: MTN [boodskap #104198 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104189] Di, 05 Julie 2005 12:36 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Vusi  is tans af-lyn  Vusi
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Interessant ook dat 'n werknemer van Vodacom in die 90's 'n vergadering
tussen MTN en Vodacom ontbloot het waartydens die twee partye saamgesweer
het om pryse te manipuleer. Snaaks dat die raad op kompetisie dit huidiglik
nie eens oorweeg om die twee te ondersoek nie - seker omdat daar nou
korrupte ANC-lede aandeelhouers in beide maatskappye is?
Re: MTN [boodskap #104199 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104188] Di, 05 Julie 2005 12:54 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Max  is tans af-lyn  Max
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Ferdi, weet jy seker dat Telkom geen aandeel in MTN het nie? Of dink jy net
so? Ek kan niks op die web vind nie...

"Ferdi Greyling" skryf in boodskap news:42d0a000.2220687@news.absamail.co.za...
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:57:24 +0200, "Max" wrote:
>
> hierdie groep
>> wat weet?
>
> Telkom is 'n 50% aandeelhouer in Vodacom, maar het geen aandeelhouding
> in MTN nie. Dis 'n lesensie-voorwaarde dat die netwerke nie oor en
> weer aandeelhouding mag he nie, as ek reg onthou.
>
> Maar onthou altyd die volgende: Toe die selfoon-lisensies in 1994
> toegeken is, was daar gese daar is 'n informele ooreenkoms dat
> selfoon-tariewe nooit minder as Telkom-tariewe mag wees nie. Dit was
> die voorwaarde wat Telkom glo gestel het om saam te gaan met die die
> nuwe selfoon-netwerke. Dit was om hom te beskerm anders het almal
> selfone gekry en Telkom-konneksies gekanselleer. Hoekom sou hulle nie?
> Daardie tyd moes jy maande wag vir 'n Telkom-foon terwyl 'n selfoon
> binne ure joune was.
>
Re: MTN [boodskap #104206 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104199] Di, 05 Julie 2005 20:42 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
NoS...[3]  is tans af-lyn  NoS...[3]
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Junior Lid
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:54:54 +0200, "Max" wrote:

> Ferdi, weet jy seker dat Telkom geen aandeel in MTN het nie? Of dink jy net
> so? Ek kan niks op die web vind nie...

Ek weet dit.
Dit was deel van die lisensie-voorwaardes - geen cross ownership nie.
MTN het in die beginstadium aandeelhouding van Southern Bell (VSA
vastelyn mpy) gehad. Het dit waarskynlik nog, hoewel ek my verbeel SB
het uitgeklim juis omdat 'n ander aankopie of iets cross ownership sou
veroorsaak het.

Dit verhinder natuurlik nie kartelle gevorm in donker kantore agter
geslote deure nie.
Re: MTN [boodskap #104207 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104199] Di, 05 Julie 2005 21:06 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
NoS...[3]  is tans af-lyn  NoS...[3]
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Junior Lid
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:54:54 +0200, "Max" wrote:

> Ferdi, weet jy seker dat Telkom geen aandeel in MTN het nie? Of dink jy net
> so? Ek kan niks op die web vind nie...

Hier is twee afrtikel (Sunday Times en 'n persverklaring ) van 1998 en
2003 sover ek kan aflei. Hulle gee nogal detail.

Onder meer oor Southern Bell was gedwing was om sy aandeel in MTN te
verkoop.

Johnnic het ook 'n groot deel van MTN gekoop nadat Naspers iets in die
lyn van 26% gehad het (en dit opgegee het vir die reg om volle beheer
oor Mweb te kry - ..... I ask you...., maar anyway....) .

Ek sal volgende week kan uitvind wie presies die huidige eienaars is,
maar ek is baie seker geen cross ownership word toegelaat nie - daarom
moes SBC padgee. En Telkom het die helfte van Vodacom so hy mag nie
saam besit aan MTN nie.

-----------------------

Aanhaling:
MTN in a wrangle over sale of R6bn stake

The source of the disagreement is the interpretation of the company's
licence conditions, writes THABO KOBOKOANE

CELLULAR phone network MTN and the communications department are in
dispute over the sale of 40.5% of MTN, a stake worth more than
R6-billion.

MTN chairman Nthato Motlana confirmed this week that Cable & Wireless
(C&W), the UK-based telecommunications giant, would dispose of its 25%
interest.

Also up for sale is the 15.5% of MTN held by US telecoms group SBC
Communications. SBC is now a major shareholder in Telkom, which owns
MTN rival Vodacom, and has been instructed by the Competitions Board
to sell.

C&W announced in November that it would divest its global investments
in which it had no strategic control, but has not yet confirmed its
stance on MTN.

The dispute between MTN and government, represented by the
communications department, centres on the allocation of MTN shares to
black empowerment companies.

Government has proposed to combine both the C&W and SBC stakes into
one and apportion the 40.5% between an international telecoms partner
(20%), existing MTN shareholders (10%), and black empowerment
companies (10.5%).

Existing shareholders, who have pre-emptive rights on both shares,
however, are keen to see the two handled separately with the C&W stake
offered to an international partner to inject capital and technical
expertise. The SBC stake would then be split between existing
shareholders and black empowerment entrants.

Motlana, who represents SA's largest black-controlled group, Nail, on
the MTN board, confirms that shareholders would prefer to separate the
stakes.

"We want to sell the entire 25% C&W stake to a foreign partner with
the SBC holding devoted to shareholders and empowerment groups," he
says.

MTN has already met a number of international players - including
Telia of Sweden and both Italian and Portuguese state-owned telecoms
companies - to discuss the sale.

The director-general of the communications department, Andile Ngcaba,
denies that he has a dispute with MTN. "We are neither a buyer nor a
seller of the stake. But we control the licence, which gives us an
obligation to ensure that MTN remains in SA hands and that black
empowerment partners are introduced."

Motlana says shareholders, SBC, C&W and government will meet later
this month to discuss the proposed sale.

The dispute is a continuation of the debate between government and MTN
shareholders over the interpretation of the MTN licence.

Government argues that it has pre-emptive rights over MTN in terms of
MTN's licence conditions, but MTN says the conditions were amended
when SBC bought its 15.5% interest in 1995. The dispute is likely to
delay and complicate the sale of these two portions.

Excluding SBC and C&W, the other MTN shareholders are Transnet (20%),
M-Cell (29.5%) and Nail (3.5%). Nail's interest is held through its
70% stake in Nafcom. Nafcom has a 44.7% interest in Naftel, which in
turn holds a further 10% of MTN.

Nail is keen to increase its stake in MTN by about 10%. Government's
proposals, if they stand, could scupper these plans.

Using the government model, it seems probable that Transnet and Nail
would acquire 5% each as existing shareholders. This will effectively
increase Nail's interest to 8.5%. Apparently the black empowerment
interests have been split between a Rethabile-led consortium,
acquiring 5%, a Safika-led one with 3.5%, and an unnamed consortium
acquiring the remaining stake.

But this could change depending on what transpires between government
and MTN shareholders over the process to be followed in this
transaction.

MTN is unlisted, but using M-Cell's share price (M-Cell has a 29.5%
interest in MTN), the cellphone network provider could be worth
R14-billion and SBC and C&W's combined stake R6-billion.

-----------------

30-06-2003

Johnnic's Headline Earnings up 91% and Attributable Earnings up 242%

Johannesburg: Johnnic Holdings Limited ("Johnnic"), one of South
Africa's leading black empowerment companies, today announced
impressive results for the year ended 31 March 2003 with attributable
earnings growing 242% to R961,7 million (last year: R281,2 million)
and headline earnings up 91% to R991,4 million (last year: R520,1
million).

On a cents-per-share basis, the attributable earnings and headline
earnings increased 240% and 90% respectively to 585 cents (last year:
172 cents) and 603 cents (last year: 317 cents).

In December 2002, Johnnic agreed to terminate its voting pool
agreement with Transnet Limited ("Transnet") and waive its pre-emptive
rights over Transnet's MTN Group Limited ("MTN") shares, in favour of
the MTN management.

"We terminated the Transnet voting pool agreement and waived our
pre-emptive rights over the MTN shares in order to support MTN
management's acquisition of Transnet's stake in MTN. This was part of
our agreement to bolster empowerment within MTN ahead of the unlocking
of value within Johnnic," explains Jacob Modise, Johnnic Chief
Operating Officer.

As a result, Johnnic relinquished control over MTN in December 2002
and ceased to consolidate the MTN results from 1 October 2002.

"Pro forma results have been published to enable meaningful comparison
between current year and prior year published results. MTN was
consolidated for the first six months of the year and equity accounted
for the remaining six months. This has had no effect on the total MTN
earnings accounted for by Johnnic," explains Christine Ramon, Johnnic
Financial Director. MORE

On a like-for-like basis, revenue grew 44% to R12 142,5 million (last
year: R8 404,8 million), and Ebitda and profit from operations
increased 69% and 96% respectively to R2 902,4 million (last year:
R1716,5 million) and R1 612,5 million (last year: R824,5 million).

MTN contributed, by a large measure, to the sterling earnings growth
in Johnnic. Johnnic's share of headline earnings from MTN grew 95% to
R868,2 million (last year: R444,5 million) whilst the earnings from
the entertainment and media business grew only 8% to R98,2 million
(last year: R91,1 million).

Johnnic undertook a number of disposals during the year and subsequent
to year-end which included the unwinding of the MTN Special Purpose
Vehicles that realised R220 million, the sale of 1,6 million MIH
Limited shares realising R65 million, various property disposals for
R82,3 million as well as 32,6 million MTN shares for R394,5 million.

The proceeds from these disposals were used to reduce the holding
company debt from R429 million to R65 million at year-end and nil
subsequent to year-end; settle part of Gallagher's long-term and
short-term debt of R140,5 million; as well as change the collateral in
respect of Suncoast Casino's obligations from MTN shares to cash in
the amount of R192 million.

"We are delighted to report that the holding company is now completely
debt-free. In addition, Johnnic is also sitting with 40 million MTN
shares that are now worth over R600 million to cover a R300 million
corporate guarantee for the Suncoast Casino and ongoing working
capital requirements of the company," says Modise.

Johnnic recently unbundled a significant portion of its shareholding
(31,9%) in MTN, providing Johnnic shareholders with a direct
investment in MTN. This move was largely driven by the Group's
strategy to unlock shareholder value and follows the enhancement of
empowerment within MTN. The convergence strategy that underpinned
Johnnic's focus of telecommunications, media and entertainment had
matured and no longer required a central control structure. MORE

"We are currently in the process of redefining our strategy following
the unbundling of our shareholding in MTN. This process will include
the finalization of the various options open to Johnnic to eliminate
the pyramid structure created by the unbundling relating to Johnnic
and its shareholding in Johnnic Communications Limited," says Modise.

"The recent recovery in the MTN and Johnnic share prices is
encouraging. Johnnic shareholders, who are also now MTN shareholders,
will benefit from the strong performance of the underlying businesses
that are represented by their shareholdings," concludes Modise. ENDS

Issued by:
Busi Pilane, Johnnic PRO, tel: 011 266-3109, cell: 083 380-3121

For further information, please contact:
Jacob Modise, Johnnic COO, tel: 011 266-3101, cell: 083 287-3385
Christine Ramon, Johnnic FD, tel: 011 266-3104, cell: 083 446-3341
Re: MTN [boodskap #104212 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104207] Wo, 06 Julie 2005 07:57 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Max  is tans af-lyn  Max
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Senior Lid
Dankie, Ferdi. DIt sal interessant wees. Ek het 'n paar jaar terug gehoor
dat Telkom ook 'n groot vinger in die MTN pie (gehad) het.

"Ferdi Greyling"
> Ek sal volgende week kan uitvind wie presies die huidige eienaars is,
> maar ek is baie seker geen cross ownership word toegelaat nie - daarom
> moes SBC padgee. En Telkom het die helfte van Vodacom so hy mag nie
> saam besit aan MTN nie.
Re: MTN [boodskap #104230 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104206] Wo, 06 Julie 2005 19:27 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
knersus  is tans af-lyn  knersus
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Senior Lid
SBC is mos die lot wat nou die dag hulle (30%?) aandele in Telkom verkoop het.
So in werklikheid het MTN aandeelhouding in Telkom gehad deur hulle SBC aandele ;-)

Ferdi Greyling wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:54:54 +0200, "Max" wrote:
> Ek weet dit.
> Dit was deel van die lisensie-voorwaardes - geen cross ownership nie.
> MTN het in die beginstadium aandeelhouding van Southern Bell (VSA
> vastelyn mpy) gehad. Het dit waarskynlik nog, hoewel ek my verbeel SB
> het uitgeklim juis omdat 'n ander aankopie of iets cross ownership sou
> veroorsaak het.

--
_______
| OSCAR |
|KNERSUS|
|_&_KIE_|
Re: MTN [boodskap #104259 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #104230] Do, 07 Julie 2005 20:54 Na vorige boodskap
NoS...[3]  is tans af-lyn  NoS...[3]
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Junior Lid
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:27:56 +0200, knersus wrote:

> SBC is mos die lot wat nou die dag hulle (30%?) aandele in Telkom verkoop het.
> So in werklikheid het MTN aandeelhouding in Telkom gehad deur hulle SBC aandele ;-)

Nee ek dink SB was 'n aandeelhouer in MTN maar het daardie
aandeelhouding verkoop sodat hy die aankopie kan doen wat hom
aandeelhouding in Telkom sou gee. Aandeelhouding in Telkom is
natuurlik aandeelhouding in Vodacom.

As hy nou uit daardie (Telkom-verwante) opsie ook is, is hy
waarskynlik geheel en al uit SA telekommunikasie.
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