Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand
| Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33819] |
Di., 29 Augustus 2000 00:00  |
Marco de Innocentis
Boodskappe: 11
Geregistreer: Augustus 2000
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Junior Lid |
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I am a member of a British group called Foreign Prisoners Support,
which tries to help foreign prisoners abroad, mostly in Thailand.
We are in touch with a South African woman, Dawn (Viljcen) van
Niekerk, who is serving a 40-year sentence in Thailand's notorious
Lard Yao prison, of which she has already served 5. She's 26 years
old and has a 5 year old daughter in South Africa who has grown up
without her mother.
The conditions in Lard Yao prison are terrible: her cell includes
more than 240 women, they all sleep packed together on the floor.
They get only one 'meal' a day, which consists of some dirty rice
and fish-heads. They get nothing to wash themselves, no soap, no
sanitary equipment, nothing whatsoever. Everything must be bought
from the guards by the prisoners with their own money.
She's getting absolutely no help from the South African embassy
in Bangkok, and unlike many other western prisoners she has no
hope of being repatriated because no prisoner exchange treaty
exists between S.A. and Thailand.
I would be very grateful if anyone could give me the names and
addresses of any organisations in South Africa or of Afrikaans
societies abroad which might be able to help her by sending her
food, toiletries, or even just by writing to her to keep up her
morale. If you'd like to write to her yourself you can use the
online form at
http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/contact_us.html
with "Viljcen van Niekerk" as prisoner name and "Lard Yao" as
location. Or, if you prefer to send her an ordinary letter, send
me a note and I'll let you have her address.
Marco de Innocentis
(Foreign Prisoners Support)
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33873 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Wo., 30 Augustus 2000 00:00  |
loes&patrick
Boodskappe: 238
Geregistreer: Februarie 2004
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Senior Lid |
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Ok group, she has been found guilty, she was probably eager for the money,
very naive, or utterly stupid.
Giving that as a fact: Where is your Christian compassion eh ? She still is
a young woman, should we realy let her rot in that stinking overcrowded
prison. Is there realy no one out there in South Africa who would offer her
AND her family some sort of help? Better start acting like Christians as
so many of you say you are - or are you only saying you're Christians when
and where it is safe to say that.
Oh and Mr. Innocentis will you please let me know where she can be reached,
and I would like to speak to her family too. I do not care if "Innocentis" is
your real name or not. thank you for bringing this case under the general
public attention.
Patrick
> "Vic" wrote:
>
>> I will say this again. If you can not do the time, do not do the
>> crime. Especially if you are a white South African elswhere. And
>> especially drug related offences. Drugs kill. If she is guilty, and
>> she would have been proven guilty, then let her rot. I have NO
>> sympathy for people who deal in
>> drugs.
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33878 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Wo., 30 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
Vic
Boodskappe: 49
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
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Volle Lid |
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"Marco de Innocentis" skryf in boodskap news:8oj5bj$d4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article ,
> "Vic" wrote:
>
>> I will say this again. If you can not do the time, do not do the
>> crime. Especially if you are a white South African elswhere. And
>> especially drug related offences. Drugs kill. If she is guilty, and
>> she would have been proven guilty, then let her rot. I have NO
>> sympathy for people who deal in
>> drugs.
>
> She acted as a drug courier, as many foreigners with little
> money end up doing: someone comes, offers them a ticket back
> home if they agree to carry a small parcel back home, and they
> (stupidly) agree. The real drug traffickers are left happy to
> continue their trade, and the foreign 'courier' is sometimes
> arrested and sentenced to 50 or 100 years in prison, for a
> crime which in any western country would carry at most a 3-4
> year sentence.
>
> This is not counting the fact that prisoners in Thailand have
> no possibility to defend themselves, and that the police there
> get huge bonuses (money) for everyone they arrest on drugs
> charges, so they have all the reason to try and "frame" someone,
> especially a helpless foregner. Once you are arrested on drugs
> charges your only option is to plead guilty: if you don't, and
> are then found guilty, you automatically get the death penalty.
> Unless you have good money to pay for a private lawyer, you won't
> be given one, and no one will bother to translate the proceedings,
> which will be entirely in Thai.
>
> I have explained this for the others. I know none of it will
> convince you, for there's nothing you can do against fanatics
> or fanaticism of any kind.
>
> All the best,
>
> Marco
Marco,
I am no fanatic, of any kind, however, if you have little money, get a job.
I have survived in Europe for 1 month, without a job or money, and the only
crime I was guilty of was sleeping rough. People know that they are not
meant to carry stuff for other people. You are reminded of this EVERY time
you board a plane, however short the journey. Again, if you cant do the
time...dont do the crime. People know that the punishment there is harsh
for these kind of offences. Still it happens all the time.
What you should be doing is warning people about drug trafficing.
Regards,
Vic
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33880 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Wo., 30 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
Marco de Innocentis
Boodskappe: 11
Geregistreer: Augustus 2000
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Junior Lid |
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In article ,
"Vic" wrote:
> I will say this again. If you can not do the time, do not do the
> crime. Especially if you are a white South African elswhere. And
> especially drug related offences. Drugs kill. If she is guilty, and
> she would have been proven guilty, then let her rot. I have NO
> sympathy for people who deal in
> drugs.
She acted as a drug courier, as many foreigners with little
money end up doing: someone comes, offers them a ticket back
home if they agree to carry a small parcel back home, and they
(stupidly) agree. The real drug traffickers are left happy to
continue their trade, and the foreign 'courier' is sometimes
arrested and sentenced to 50 or 100 years in prison, for a
crime which in any western country would carry at most a 3-4
year sentence.
This is not counting the fact that prisoners in Thailand have
no possibility to defend themselves, and that the police there
get huge bonuses (money) for everyone they arrest on drugs
charges, so they have all the reason to try and "frame" someone,
especially a helpless foregner. Once you are arrested on drugs
charges your only option is to plead guilty: if you don't, and
are then found guilty, you automatically get the death penalty.
Unless you have good money to pay for a private lawyer, you won't
be given one, and no one will bother to translate the proceedings,
which will be entirely in Thai.
I have explained this for the others. I know none of it will
convince you, for there's nothing you can do against fanatics
or fanaticism of any kind.
All the best,
Marco
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33881 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Wo., 30 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @home.com
Vic wrote:
> Ek is jammer as ek op tone getrap het met daardie een, behalwe as jy
> @home.com genoem word.
Ek moet jou eintlik ignoreer, Vic .( Hoekom sit jy my nieop jou kill file
nie?)
Hoekom irriteer dit vir jou as mense uit deernis vir ander
mense werk om hulle lewe bietjie te versag. (Ek neem aan
jy sal dieselfde voel oor Amnesty International.)
Mens kry ook tragiese gevalle. Ons het nou juis hier
in Kanada die geval waar 'n ma en dogter uit Toronto
vir hulle familie in Vietnam gaan kuier het. Toe hulle terug-
kom, word hulle gevang met drugs in hulle bagasie (volgens
hulle het hulle nie geweet dis drugs nie, net toegestem om
'n pakket vir iemand terug te bring. Maar dit nou daargelaat.)
Die familie hier het vir die Kanadese regering gevra om te
help. Maar niks wat die Kanadese regering doen, het gehelp
nie. Albei is ter dood veroordeel en die dogter is alreeds
doodgemaak. Die ou ma sal glo vrygelaat word wanneer
daar 'n algemene amnestie een van die dae is ter herdenking
aan een of ander iets.
Gloudina
>
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33883 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Wo., 30 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @home.com
Marco de Innocentis wrote:
Marco de Innocentis, is this your
real name? If it is your real family
name, what a coincidence that you
are in the business of caring for
the innocents and not so guilty.
Another confluence of surname
and sphere of operation: the name
of a very far right white racist in
South Africa is Eugene Terreblanche.
>
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33900 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
Vic
Boodskappe: 49
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
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Volle Lid |
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> Die vonnis is te erg. Sy is nog a jong vrou. Ek voel dat na 'n paar jaar,
> hulle kan haar maar huis toe stuur en haar nooit weer 'n visa uitruik nie.
> Sy het al seker al klaar haar les geleer.
Mel,
Daarmee stem ek heeltemal saam. 50 jaar vir dwelms is te erg. Jy kry
miskien 25 jaar as jy wit is vir moord in Suid Afrika, 0 jaar as jy swart
is. In Noord Ierland, as jy se dat dit politiek was, dan het jy verlede
Kersfees uitgekom, maak nie saak wat die vonnis was, en hoe lank jy daar was
nie.
Ek voel dat as hulle 'n Suid Afrikaner, of enige ander, van 'n ander land,
vir 'n misdaad wil tronk toe stuur, moet hulle dit doen sodat die vonnis of
die maksimum is vir die land waarvandaan hy/sy kom, of die vonnis van die
land waarin die misdaad gepleeg is, watter ookal die minste.
Vic
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33901 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
hotnotsgot
Boodskappe: 59
Geregistreer: Augustus 2000
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Volle Lid |
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Misdaad bly misdaad. Kan die vrou nie 'n Suid Afrikaanse Prokureur huur nie?
Sorry, ek sit in die buiteland en weet nie of sy nou al in die hof verskyn
het nie(?). Is daar nie iemand soos Interpol of so wat sulke mense kan help
nie. Wat word nou van al die menseregte wat kriminele binne die land se
grense het?
Jy het 'n punt beet, Vic, maar ek weet nie of die res van die wêreld ook as
Mandela verjaar jou gaan laat uitkom nie!!! 50 jaar is 'n belaglike vonnis,
vir enige misdaad. Persoonlik kry ek eerder doodstraf, na 50 jaar (as jy dit
oorleef) gaan jy in elk geval nooit weer aanpas in die samelewing nie - en
dis tog deels waarvoor tronke daar is.
Is sy vir 50 jaar gevonnis, of staar sy 'n maksimum van 50 jaar in die oë?
Daar's 'n groot verskil...
Vic schreef in berichtnieuws
39ae2731$1@ni-news.utvinternet.com...
>> Mel,
>>
>> Daarmee stem ek heeltemal saam. 50 jaar vir dwelms is te erg. Jy kry
>> miskien 25 jaar as jy wit is vir moord in Suid Afrika, 0 jaar as jy swart
>> is. In Noord Ierland, as jy se dat dit politiek was, dan het jy verlede
>> Kersfees uitgekom, maak nie saak wat die vonnis was, en hoe lank jy daar
> was
>> nie.
>>
>> Ek voel dat as hulle 'n Suid Afrikaner, of enige ander, van 'n ander land,
>> vir 'n misdaad wil tronk toe stuur, moet hulle dit doen sodat die vonnis
> of
>> die maksimum is vir die land waarvandaan hy/sy kom, of die vonnis van die
>> land waarin die misdaad gepleeg is, watter ookal die minste.
>>
>> Vic
>
> Dit was 'n mondvol. Wat dit alles beteken...
>
> As die misdaad 50 jaar in Thailand dra, en 5 jaar in SA, dan sit hulle 5
> jaar. As die vonnis in Thailand 3 jaar is en in Suid afrika 5, dan sit
> hulle 3 jaar.
>
> Vic
>
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33902 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
Vic
Boodskappe: 49
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
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Volle Lid |
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"L&P" skryf in boodskap news:ant301757345M3Mb@camerama.demon.nl...
>
> Ok group, she has been found guilty, she was probably eager for the money,
> very naive, or utterly stupid.
> Giving that as a fact: Where is your Christian compassion eh ? She still is
> a young woman, should we realy let her rot in that stinking overcrowded
> prison. Is there realy no one out there in South Africa who would offer her
> AND her family some sort of help? Better start acting like Christians as
> so many of you say you are - or are you only saying you're Christians when
> and where it is safe to say that.
> Oh and Mr. Innocentis will you please let me know where she can be reached,
> and I would like to speak to her family too. I do not care if "Innocentis" is
> your real name or not. thank you for bringing this case under the general
> public attention.
> Patrick
>
Patrick,
I feel that you should be held accountable for your deeds. Like (I think,
sorry if I am wrong) Elaine said in this group, life is all about choices.
She made the wrong one. She knew what she was doing. She knew what would
happen if she got caught. There are many other ways to get home from a
foreign country, one of which is theft. That will get you deported. That
is a lot more favorable than 50 years in jail. Now, DO NOT get me wrong, I
DO NOT condone theft in any way, I am just saying, that if you are so
desperate that you are contemplating crime, then do something that would not
get you killed, or carry a jail sentence that will kill you.
On the subject of her family. My hart bleeds for them. Seriously. She
made some bad choices, and they have to live with it for the rest of their
live.
Regards,
Vic
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33903 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 00:00 |
Vic
Boodskappe: 49
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
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Volle Lid |
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> Mel,
>
> Daarmee stem ek heeltemal saam. 50 jaar vir dwelms is te erg. Jy kry
> miskien 25 jaar as jy wit is vir moord in Suid Afrika, 0 jaar as jy swart
> is. In Noord Ierland, as jy se dat dit politiek was, dan het jy verlede
> Kersfees uitgekom, maak nie saak wat die vonnis was, en hoe lank jy daar was
> nie.
>
> Ek voel dat as hulle 'n Suid Afrikaner, of enige ander, van 'n ander land,
> vir 'n misdaad wil tronk toe stuur, moet hulle dit doen sodat die vonnis of
> die maksimum is vir die land waarvandaan hy/sy kom, of die vonnis van die
> land waarin die misdaad gepleeg is, watter ookal die minste.
>
> Vic
Dit was 'n mondvol. Wat dit alles beteken...
As die misdaad 50 jaar in Thailand dra, en 5 jaar in SA, dan sit hulle 5
jaar. As die vonnis in Thailand 3 jaar is en in Suid afrika 5, dan sit
hulle 3 jaar.
Vic
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33919 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 11:46 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @home.com
Vic wrote:
> Ek voel dat as hulle 'n Suid Afrikaner, of enige ander, van 'n ander land,
> vir 'n misdaad wil tronk toe stuur, moet hulle dit doen sodat die vonnis of
> die maksimum is vir die land waarvandaan hy/sy kom, of die vonnis van die
> land waarin die misdaad gepleeg is, watter ookal die minste.
>
>
Of hulle moet doen wat Kanada doen: as daar iemand in Kanadain gevlug het (soos
byvoorbeeld uit die VSA) en hulle weet dat hy
terug in die VSA die doodstraf sal kry, dan weier hulle om hom
uit te lewer. Want Kanada is teen die doodstraf. Hulle hou hom
in die tronk in Kanada.
Gloudina
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33921 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 12:29 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @home.com
Vic wrote:
>> Of hulle moet doen wat Kanada doen: as daar iemand in Kanadain gevlug het
> (soos
>> byvoorbeeld uit die VSA) en hulle weet dat hy
>> terug in die VSA die doodstraf sal kry, dan weier hulle om hom
>> uit te lewer. Want Kanada is teen die doodstraf. Hulle hou hom
>> in die tronk in Kanada.
>
>
> Sien Gloudina, daar stem ek nou met jou saam. Ek glo dat 50 jaar te veel
> is, en dat daardie krilogies iets daaraan moet doen. As daar 'n petiesie
> omkom (ahem Mr de Innocentis, you listening) wat se dat Thailand hulle
> belaglike dwelmmisdaad straf wette moet nasien, dan sal ek dit met graagte
> teken.
>
> Vic
So ek neem aan jy is ook teen die doodstraf.
Gloudina
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33936 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33934] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 16:01 |
Vic
Boodskappe: 49
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
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Volle Lid |
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"Marco de Innocentis" skryf in boodskap news:8oluda$mtm$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article ,
> "Vic" wrote:
>
>> On the subject of her family. My hart bleeds for them. Seriously.
>
> May I suggest you don't go and tell them she should "rot in jail",
> otherwise more than your heart may end up bleeding...
>
I do apologise for my initial crude post. I do believe that if she did the
crime, she should do the time. In this case, as I said, the time, is
ridiculous. And that is what we should be campaining towards. I do feel
very sorry for her family, who has to suffer for a bad choice their daughter
made. And again, sorry for the initial crude words. It was uncalled for.
Regards,
Vic
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| Re: Afrikaans woman imprisoned in Thailand [boodskap #33938 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33819] |
Do., 31 Augustus 2000 17:49 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @home.com
Reenen van Niekerk wrote:
> Dankie
>
> My kop slaan toe somtyds
> hotnotsgot wrote
>
>> Terre - Aarde
>> Blanche - Blank
>>
>> Terreblanche - Uit die wit aarde.
Daar is niks met jou kop verkeerd nie.Nie alle mense het 'n kennis van
Frans
nie. (In Kanada is dit egter my tweede
offisiele taal. Geen staatsamptenaar kan
die hoogste range bereik sonder om die
twee tale te gebruik nie. En die eksamen,
veral die mondelinge eksamen vir Frans
is nogal moeilik. Dit word oor die
telefoon gedoen. Meeste van die Engels-
sprekende staatsamptenare druip dit
een of tweekeer.)
Gloudina
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| Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #33954 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #33942] |
Vr., 01 September 2000 10:51 |
hotnotsgot
Boodskappe: 59
Geregistreer: Augustus 2000
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Volle Lid |
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Hi Marco
> I think I got him mixed up with another guy, the former leader of
> the conservative party in SA, who was interviewed on Time magazine
> a few years ago.
You're right. It was Treurnich... I'm not sure exactly when, but it was
around 1994. (Maybe someone alse can clear this up)
> By the way, how close is Afrikaans to Dutch? Are they mutually
> understandable?
To read, yes, except for a few words... Afrikaans basically started off as
Dutch, but in the past 350 years it has changed a considerable amount.
Afrikaans is Dutch, simplified. Also known as "Kitchen Dutch"! (We're not
proud af that)
> How common was it for South Africans of non-Dutch European descent
> to speak Afrikaans?
Afrikaans is the biggest language of South Africa, but, being a traditional
"white" language, it's known as the language of the suppressors. Therefor,
the Black South Africans wouldn't use it.
In SA there are 11 official languages, one of them being Afrikaans.
Hope this answers your questions...
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