Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » mandela
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 Re: mandela [boodskap #56640 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56625] |
So., 03 Februarie 2002 16:16   |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Davie Davis wrote:
> hulle vlieg in torings in somtyds. Ander tye plaas hulle bomme in
> winkels of landmyne op paaie en vermoor vrouens en kindertjies.
Of hulle hou vlakplaas langs die
braaivleisvure.
Dirk Coetzee
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| Re: mandela [boodskap #56666 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56631] |
Ma., 04 Februarie 2002 01:41 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Davie Davis wrote:
> Net soos Mbeki terroristies is deur Mugabe te ondersteun (in sy
> stilswye) was dit terroristies van Mandela om lid van die ANC te
> bly terwyl hulle terroristiese dade gepleeg het.
So ek neem aan jy en jou pa en jou
ma en ander lede van julle familie
wat soos jy dink, is in jou oë
terroriste . Julle was terroriste
deur julle stilswye en onaksie
terwyl daar die gruwelikste euwels
deur die apartheidsregime gepleeg
is. Davie Davis, eks-terroris.
Die Ruiter in die Dag
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| Re: mandela [boodskap #56667 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56660] |
Ma., 04 Februarie 2002 03:09 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
emmy wrote:
> "Davie Davis" schreef in bericht
>> Ons het hulle ook gevolg Emmy
>
> Hoe kon je die volgen destijds. er was censuur..of je had een positie
> waardoor je wel veel wist?
Kolskoot, Emmy. Sê vir hom.
Dis ouens soos hy wat altyd
pleit dat hulle " nie geweet
het wat in die apartheidsjare
aangegaan het nie."
Dirk Coetzee langs die braaivleisvuur.
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| Re: mandela [boodskap #56771 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56467] |
Ma., 04 Februarie 2002 21:12 |
Dries Venter
Boodskappe: 299
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Hmm, wat sê die uittreksel nou eintlik? Die ou kan lyk my met geen
sekerheid sê dat die briefbom wel uit Intelligensiegeledere gekom het nie.
In der waarheid is alles wat hy daar sê hoorsê getuienis. Wie was Jeanette
Schoon? Dit lyk vir my sy was baie versigtig uitgesoek as 'n persoon wat
vyandig teenoor die staat is en 'n manier om slegs haar dood te maak is
uitgewerk, as ons sou aanvaar dat die bom wel uit NI-geledere gekom het.
Natuurlik was haar dogtertjie 'n onskuldige "omstander". Draai dit 'n
bietjie om na, sê nou maar die St James slagting, of die McGoo's Bar bom.
Watter SPESIFIEKE persoon is daar uitgesoek? Wie van daardie persone was
die struggle se "staatsvyand"? I sdaar gepoog om slegs daardie een persoon
dood te maak? Die antwoorde op al hierdie vrae is natuurrlik nee. So
moenie vir ons kom probeer wysmaak dat daardie dade "edel" was nie deur dit
te kontrasteer met iets soos Jeanette Schoon nie, dit was uit-en-uit
misdade. Deur mense wat hulle self as vryheidsvegters beskryf. Let mooi
op, ek beskou die daad teen Jeanette Schoon ook as 'n misdaad, wat ek wil sê
is dat nie help om oor en weer vingers te wys nie. Wat gebeur het, het
gebeur. Sela. Dis verby. Agter.
Weet jy Gloudina, ek dink al meer en meer ons moet 'n stemming uitroep om
die voortbestaan van hierdie NG. Hier word elke dag net dieselfde drek
verkondig, al in die rondte in soos 'n afpoot miskruier om sy eie bol. Di�
NG mors net Internet bandwydte. Dink julle ander ook so? So nie, sal ek
maar myself hier verwyder, want ek het in die 5 of 6 jaar op die nuusgroep
niks nuuts geleer nie, en ek het dieselfde ou by dieselfde vliegtuig hoor
uitval omtrent elke 2e week, maar partykeer was dit darem 'n aapfetus voor
iemand se huis. Ek dink as Gloudina iets reggekry het, was dit om gematigde
mense wat bereid was om 'n ander koers in te slaan en te probeer vergoed vir
wat in die verlede gebeur het, net daar in hul spore te laat vassteek en
reguit terug te gaan na waar hulle vandaan gekom het - en daardeur dinge
verder te radikaliseer en polariseer.
TOTSIENS
Dries Venter
"Swart Simon" skryf in boodskap news:3c5f0980.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
>>> Al gehoor van Jeannette en Katryn Schoon?
>>
>> Vertel van hulle, Simon.
>> Gloudina
>>
>
> As jy nou rêrig nie weet nie, gaan kyk na:
>
> http://www.truth.org.za/amntrans/1998/98090829PRE/2pretor5.h tm
>
> Hier is 'n uittreksel:
>
> MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, early in 1984 I was given an instruction to go
> to the office of Brigadier Piet Goosen, my group head, and he had with him
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| Re: mandela [boodskap #56777 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56745] |
Ma., 04 Februarie 2002 22:24 |
Simon van der Schans
Boodskappe: 263
Geregistreer: Januarie 1999
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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skryf in boodskap news:3C5EDB45.9030902@rogers.com...
>
> Swart Simon wrote:
>
>
>> Al gehoor van Jeannette en Katryn Schoon?
>
> Vertel van hulle, Simon.
> Gloudina
>
As jy nou rêrig nie weet nie, gaan kyk na:
http://www.truth.org.za/amntrans/1998/98090829PRE/2pretor5.h tm
Hier is 'n uittreksel:
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, early in 1984 I was given an instruction to go
to the office of Brigadier Piet Goosen, my group head, and he had with him
in a large envelope a communication, a postal item which was I believe an
intercepted communication between the ANC in Botswana addressed to Marius
and Jeanette Schoon in Lubango, Angola and my information at that time, Mr
Chairman, was that the Schoons had in fact London and had gone to Angola as
we mentioned before which was I think regarded not only by the ANC but by
ourselves as a military area of a different nature to for example Maputo or
Gabarone. Maputo and Gabarone were so-called forward areas but Angola was -
and the forward areas, Mr Chairman, to which we had access but Angola was a
denied military area, that was a war zone if I can put it like that.
MR LEVINE: What transpired at the office of Brigadier Goosen?
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, I was - Brigadier had this communication and
asked me if I thought that Jerry, that is Warrant Officer Raven, could make
a similar device to that which had been sent to Maputo and which had killed
Ruth First to replace the contents of this communication. I told the
Brigadier that I would request Jerry to see what he could do.
MR LEVINE: By Jerry you mean Mr Raven?
MR WILLIAMSON: Sorry Mr Chairman, Warrant Officer Raven.
MR LEVINE: Warrant Officer Raven.
CHAIRPERSON: Where was he stationed?
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, at the time of the London operation I believe
Warrant Officer Raven was stationed with the explosives secretariat or
directorate which Colonel Coetzee talked about and after that operation he
was transferred to my section.
CHAIRPERSON: He was under you, was he?
MR WILLIAMSON: Under my command yes. Intelligence section or the
intelligence - Mr Bizos alluded I think to it in his cross-examination, Mr
Chairman, the intelligence section was a group under the command of
Brigadier Goosen. I was a section head under that and there were several
other sections but in practical terms all of the other sections below I
think we were then termed G1, all the other Sections like G2, G3, G4, one of
which was a technical section reported to me and I reported to the
brigadier. So in fact I believe, under correction Mr Chairman, that the
technical section was in fact commanded by Warrant Officer Raven, so he was
the head of the technical section which then reported to me.
MR LEVINE: While we're on the subject of sections Mr Williamson, would you
tell the Commission whether you were at any stage assigned to or a member of
Section D or Group D?
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, I heard that also in previous evidence. I don't
believe so, I think we started off under Group A and we later on became
Group G and I think shortly after I left the South African Police it may
have become Group D but I don't it was ever Group D when I was in it.
MR LEVINE: Please carry on with this particular aspect of the matter?
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman, in the case of this specific incident I took
more notice of the envelope, of the communication, because of the fact that
obviously I had more interest in the matter in that I knew the particular
people who were now being targeted and I gave as I said the contents or the
envelope to Warrant Officer Raven and some day or so later he came back to
me with it, said he'd carried out my instruction and I asked him to take the
item to the brigadier. I asked him or somebody else, I believe it was him,
to take it to the brigadier and I was not in any further way involved from
that moment, Mr Chairman.
MR LEVINE: What was the next thing you heard and when was that in relation
to the handing over of the envelope to you by Warrant Officer Raven?
MR WILLIAMSON: Mr Chairman a long time later. So long that I had thought
that we would never hear of the envelope again. I can't remember how long
but it could even be in the region of six months, it was an extraordinarily
long period of time. I hear that there had been an explosion in a house in
Lubango and that Jeanette Schoon and her young daughter had been killed.
MR LEVINE: Did you ask how the postal item was to be delivered?
MR WILLIAMSON: I did not Mr Chairman, I neither asked where it had come from
nor asked how it was going, I speculated obviously to myself and I applied
very strictly the rule of need to know and I did not need to know.
MR LEVINE: That's "moet weet"?
MR WILLIAMSON: Yes Mr Chairman.
MR LEVINE: Please carry on?
CHAIRPERSON: But you were interested in this, you've told us these were
people you knew, that you were interested in the target? Why did you then
suddenly apply "need to know"?
MR WILLIAMSON: Because Mr Chairman, that is why I did not need to know. I
accepted that in the - I think Mr Chairman, I've thought about this for many
years and there comes a great difficulty in ones life when you carry out a
attack on a target which you don't know and have no personal connections,
it's one thing but when you know an attack is going to be made on people
that you know, it's another. It was a matter of great difficulty, Mr
Chairman and I accepted in the context of the time that the attack was
probably going to be carried out. I accept it in the context of the time
that the individuals concerned were my enemy and were the enemy of the South
African Government and the enemy of the South African Security Forces but
that didn't make it any more easy, Mr Chairman. In fact it made it more
difficult that is why I passed on the instruction and that was it, Mr
Chairman.
Swart Simon
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| Re: mandela [boodskap #56786 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #56771] |
Di., 05 Februarie 2002 04:18 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Dries Venter wrote:
> Hmm, wat sê die uittreksel nou eintlik? Die ou kan lyk my met geen
> sekerheid sê dat die briefbom wel uit Intelligensiegeledere gekom het nie.
> Let mooi
> op, ek beskou die daad teen Jeanette Schoon ook as 'n misdaad, wat ek wil sê
> is dat nie help om oor en weer vingers te wys nie. Wat gebeur het, het
> gebeur. Sela. Dis verby. Agter.
>
> Weet jy Gloudina, ek dink al meer en meer ons moet 'n stemming uitroep om
> die voortbestaan van hierdie NG.
Ou Driesie, ek raak bekommerd oor jou.
Aan die begin van jou pos praat jy
blykbaar met Swart Simon en oor die
geval van Jeannette Schoon. Dan skielik,
sommer so uit die bloute, begin jy met
my praat. "Gloudina," sê jy, en dan gaan
jy voort om oor die nuusgroep te praat.
Dit klink so asof die varkies effens
deur die heinings ontsnap het. Dit lyk
of die hok ernstige gapings ontwikkel.
En dan begin jy sommer so uit die
bloute oor hierdie nuusgroep praat, 'n
nuusgroep waarop jy vir lange periodes
nie pos nie. Ek verstaan waarom jy nie
hou van wat ek pos nie. Dit laat jou op
plekke juk waar jy nie waag om te krap
nie, nè?
Ek en my man het albei vir hierdie
nuusgroep se skepping gestem. Het jy?
Ek dink jy is verkeerd as jy maar wil
toelaat dat mense Engelse (gewoonlik
uit Amerika) stukke geskrywery knaend
op die nuusgroep wil plaas, net omdat
hulle dit amuseer. Is dit wat jy vir
hierdie nuusgroep wil sien? Dat dit
verswelg in 'n klomp Engelse bog? As
jy dit nie wil hê nie, wees 'n man en
sê wat jy wil hê.
Kan ek vir jou goeie raad gee.
Ignoreer my en wat ek op hierdie nuus-
groep sê. Niemand dwing jou om my te lees
nie. Sit my op jou kill file. Moet tog net
in hemelsnaam nie 'n senuwee-ineenstorting
kry omdat jy ongemaklik voel oor die dinge
wat ek nie sê nie. Dis nie die moeite werd
nie.
Gloudina van Helsdingen-van der Merwe.
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