Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Pretoria no more (Afrikaans)
| Pretoria no more (Afrikaans) [boodskap #37423] |
Thu, 30 November 2000 00:00  |
Stefan Andreasson
Boodskappe: 7
Geregistreer: September 1997
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Junior Lid |
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As of next Tuesday the capital of South Africa will change name from
Pretoria to City of Tshwane. I wonder about the reasoning behind, and
utility of, name changes in contemporary South Africa.
Clearly Afrikaans cannot expect to hold the dominant position in South
African governance and society as it has in the past. The demographic
base of the language is declining relative to the South African
population as a whole, and neither is the language representative of the
majority of South Africans. Furthermore, considering the limited global
utility of the language it certainly makes sense to promote English
(seemingly most everyone's common "second language") as the lingua
franca of South Africa. I can also understand the contentious feelings
toward the language among those who identify it to some degree with the
apartheid regime - something that was abundantly clear during the 1976
Soweto uprising. It is never advisable to force a language on people.
Having said this, I do think that South Africa's linguistic diversity is
something that is positive in and of itself, and it seems to be a
mistake to actively attempt to marginalize Afrikaans (or any other
language in the country for that matter). I found it quite nice to
travel around Gauteng and seeing all the different street and town names
in Afrikaans (and also in a variety of other languages). I also find
Afrikaans a nice language that is special considering the fact that it
is the only European language to originate and become established
outside Europe. Perhaps I am biased in the sense that my own native
language is a distant relative of Afrikaans, but nevertheless it seems
as though it has its place in South Africa in the future as well as it
has had in the past.
So given this, is there a concerted effort to marginalize Afrikaans in
South Africa today you think or is the renaming of the city's capital
simply much ado about nothing and a fairly limited incident. If not,
what could be the reasons behind, and positive outcomes of,
marginalizing Afrikaans in South Africa today?
Cheers,
--
/stefan
Replace 'invalid' with 'com' to reply via e-mail.
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| Re: Pretoria no more (Afrikaans) [boodskap #37467 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #37423] |
Fri, 01 December 2000 00:00  |
Davie Davis[2]
Boodskappe: 133
Geregistreer: November 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:12:29 GMT, Stefan Andreasson
wrote:
. If you
> refer only to the situation that apartheid created, you would perhaps be
> more correct is stating that specifically the Afrikaner "made SA what it
> is today"...
>
> --
> /stefan
>
> Replace 'invalid' with 'com' to reply via e-mail.
Jy is 'n 'twut' Stefaans. (Het jy vergeet dat dit 'n Afrikaanse
nuusgroep is dié?)
Hoekom sê ek dat jy onosel is? Omdat:
Die Afrikaansprekende was in Suid Afrika nooit die groot
besigheid/firma /sake_eienaar nie. Groot instansies het in die
oorgrote meerderheid aan engelse en amerikaanse aandeelhouers behoort.
En dit is die Ford/Volkswagen/Merc fabriseerders, die Anglo
American's, die Goldfields en dies meer wat goedkoop arbeid uit die
tuislande ingevoer het.
Die De Beers is die minderheid let wel. Dit is byvoorbeeld die myne
(goud steenkool platina ens.) wat skatryk geword het uit swart arbeid
wat in kampongs gedruk is, vanwaar hulle hul families somtyds (onder
korreksie let wel) slegs een maal 'n jaar gesien het. Dit terwyl die
blanke (ingevoerde heel dikwels) bestuur in luukse Duitse motors gery
het. Op lieflike groen grasbane golf gespeel het, 'n hanetreë van die
kampongs af.
Dit jou twut, is wat die apartheidswaarheid is.
DD
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| Re: Pretoria no more (Afrikaans) [boodskap #37498 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #37423] |
Fri, 01 December 2000 05:25 |
PWBotha
Boodskappe: 2
Geregistreer: November 2000
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Sover ek weet verander Pretoria se naam nie maar wel die Groter Pretoriaanse
streek naam wel.
Stefan Andreasson wrote in message ...
> As of next Tuesday the capital of South Africa will change name from
> Pretoria to City of Tshwane. I wonder about the reasoning behind, and
> utility of, name changes in contemporary South Africa.
>
> Clearly Afrikaans cannot expect to hold the dominant position in South
> African governance and society as it has in the past. The demographic
> base of the language is declining relative to the South African
> population as a whole, and neither is the language representative of the
> majority of South Africans. Furthermore, considering the limited global
> utility of the language it certainly makes sense to promote English
> (seemingly most everyone's common "second language") as the lingua
> franca of South Africa. I can also understand the contentious feelings
> toward the language among those who identify it to some degree with the
> apartheid regime - something that was abundantly clear during the 1976
> Soweto uprising. It is never advisable to force a language on people.
>
> Having said this, I do think that South Africa's linguistic diversity is
> something that is positive in and of itself, and it seems to be a
> mistake to actively attempt to marginalize Afrikaans (or any other
> language in the country for that matter). I found it quite nice to
> travel around Gauteng and seeing all the different street and town names
> in Afrikaans (and also in a variety of other languages). I also find
> Afrikaans a nice language that is special considering the fact that it
> is the only European language to originate and become established
> outside Europe. Perhaps I am biased in the sense that my own native
> language is a distant relative of Afrikaans, but nevertheless it seems
> as though it has its place in South Africa in the future as well as it
> has had in the past.
>
> So given this, is there a concerted effort to marginalize Afrikaans in
> South Africa today you think or is the renaming of the city's capital
> simply much ado about nothing and a fairly limited incident. If not,
> what could be the reasons behind, and positive outcomes of,
> marginalizing Afrikaans in South Africa today?
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> /stefan
>
> Replace 'invalid' with 'com' to reply via e-mail.
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| Re: Pretoria no more (Afrikaans) [boodskap #37750 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #37423] |
Thu, 14 December 2000 07:34 |
T de Wet
Boodskappe: 446
Geregistreer: April 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Ek sal graag perspektiewe wil regstel:
Iemand ken GLAD nie die geskiedenis van SA nie!!! En dit wys!!!
"Sabsy" skryf in boodskap news:917orh$cnv$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "Faerie Godmother" wrote:
>>
>> Sabsy wrote in message
>>> Afterall, the
>>> English were residents of the Cape while supported by the colonial
>>> force which is the British.
>>
>>> The Dutch or Vootrekkers went up North without invitation and
>>> slaughtered those that were in their way.
> The Vootrekkers were Dutch, French, as well as German. Regardless, they
> are no more South African than the Natives or other occupying forces at
> the time in South Africa.
> Since these Vootrekkers had killed many along the way to mine diamonds,
> they should have expected to be attacked. They were not minding their
> business.
Die Voortrekkers was nie Nederlanders, Franse, Duitsers of wat ookal nie!
Hulle was van dit van oorsprong (m.a.w. Nederlanders, Franse, Duitse, ens).
Hulle was almal hier is aan die suidelike deel van Afrika wat vroeër die
Kaapkolonie was, gebore. Onthou ook dat die Groot Trek eers in die 1830's
tot 1840's plaasgevind het. Die Voortrekkers was ook meestal
boere(landbouers) wat nie veel kennis en kundigheid oor mynbou en
industrialisasie had nie. Nie omdat hulle agterlik of onnosel was nie, maar
omdat daar nog geen groot industrieë teen daardie tyd in Afrika was nie. Om
so 'n growwe aanname te maak dat AL die Voortrekkers dus moordenaars en
uitbuiters van die onskuldige Afrikane was, is plein stupid en getuig van
totale onkunde oor die ware feite.
>>> Now, we are told that a few years later, this select group of South
>>> Africans were minding their business which basically means that another
>>> group were made slaves to another group. Is this minding their own
>>> business?
>>
>> When were the miners slaves? Your grasp of South African history is
>> poor.
Dit is wel so dat daar van die inheemse volke in daardie tydperk reeds met
minerale ontginning besig was, maar vir eie gebruik. Dink aan die inheemse
volke wat hulle eie spiese, assegaaie, ens gesmee het van yster wat hulle
self ontgin en verwerk het. Dit was op 'n baie klein skaal.
> No, Moira
> Your grasp of white South African history seems rather selective and
> limited. You have the mistaken understanding that Vootrekkers were
> wonderful souls who just happened to be in Transvaal and Free State
> minding their own business in mining.
Die ontdekking van die minerale rykdom van Afrika kon eers begin word nadat
die Groot Trek plaasgevind het, en ander mense die ontdekkings kon kom doen.
Dit was wel 'n boer, Stockenstroom, wat die eerste diamant ge-identifiseer
het. Een van sy veewagters het dit aan hom gewys, en die res is
geskiedenis. Dit was hierdie ontdekking wat tot gevolg gehad het dat mense
soos die poefter Rhodes, en ander die gaping gesien het en die onkunde en
dikwels ook onbetrokkenheid van die nasate van die Voortrekkers uitgebuit
het en hulle uit hulle minerale rykdom verneuk het.
Dit was eers nadat buitelandse kundigheid in die delwerye, en later die
Witwatersrand se goudmyne, gevestig is dat die plaaslike 'Voortrekkers' (wat
toe lankal nie meer Voortrekkers was nie) ook betrokke geraak het in die
mynbedryf, en dit het maar baie lank 'n baie klein invloed gehad, omdat die
'Uitlanders' al die kennis en vernuf en ook opleiding daartoe gehad het.
Daar moet ook onthou word dat die Afrikaans/Hollands sprekende landbouers
van daardie tyd net betrokke wou wees op sy plaas, en so min as moontlik met
enige regering te doen wou hê.
> I think your selective history is taking shape again. It might help you
> not to listen too much to NP propaganda that was passed on as history,
> where the Vootrekkers were poor guys who were bullied by the terrible
> English and were stolen from by the terrible natives who refused to
> work in mines and had to be forced to ork.
> Perhaps you need remember that history of South Africa is not all about
> the Voortrekkers and Smuts. They murdered people in their pursuits and
> we are not eager to worship them because you accept what they did as
> acceptable.
Smuts het niks met die Voortrekkers te doene gehad. Hy is in die Wes-Kaap
(Riebeeck-Wes) gebore omtrent 1860-1870 (Oorlede in 1950 in die ouderdom
van 80)
Smuts het nie willens en wetens mense vermoor of uitgeroei of laat uitroei
soos wat hier beweer is nie. Dit getuig ook van totale onkunde oor die ware
feite rakende Jan Smuts.
Thys oppie 'Bos
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