Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Re: Mbeki en Vigs
| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32375] |
Sat, 15 July 2000 00:00  |
ferdinand
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On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:41:37 +0200, "Reenen van Niekerk"
wrote:
[/color]
> 10 000 wetenskaplikkes is almal verkeerd. Hoe kan hulle waag om te se dat hy
> verkeerd is.>>
Terwyl ek reken dit lyk of daar genoeg konsensus onder genoeg ernstige
mense is dat die virus en die siekte regstreekse verband het, moet 'n
mens seker darem net noem dat die 10 000 kan nie verkeerd wees nie (as
dit is wat jy bedoel op sarkastiese/ironiese wyse) argument nie altyd
so 'b goeie een is nie.
10 000 priesters het gese Galileo is verkeerd.
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| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32376 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #32375] |
Sat, 15 July 2000 00:00  |
Ernst v Biljon
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Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van
die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede.
Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika.
Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin
klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit
beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede
tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die
armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in
armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie.
Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank.
Ernest
"Elaine" skryf in boodskap news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr
> Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie
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| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32377 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #32375] |
Sat, 15 July 2000 00:00 |
ferdinand
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Interresante perspektief:
Simon Barber in Business Day:
-------------------------------------------------
Lazy journalist virus' causes herd-like motion in Durban
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
MONDAY morning's US media accounts of President Thabo Mbeki's opening
address to the 13th international AIDS conference in Durban were proof
of the lazily thought-free pack mentality of much of the journalistic
profession, especially when it comes to sensitive and complicated
issues.
The overriding theme was that Mbeki had not done what was required of
him, which was to renounce once and for all his alleged apostasy on
the relationship between HIV and AIDS.
The Washington Post's front-page headline was "Hundreds walk out on
Mbeki South African's speech on AIDS protested". The ensuing story was
chiefly devoted to airing the views of the walkers, mostly white and
foreign. The New York Times said Mbeki "dashed the hopes of thousands
of participants who wanted him to state clearly that HIV causes AIDS".
In these and other reports, precious little attention was paid to what
Mbeki actually said.
The signers of the "Durban declaration" assert that: "As with any
other chronic infection, various cofactors play a role in determining
the risk of (AIDS-related) disease. Persons who are malnourished, who
already suffer other infections or who are older, tend to be more
rapidly susceptible to the rapid development of AIDS following HIV
infection. However, none of these factors weaken the scientific
evidence that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS."
Sandra Thurman, director of the White House office of national AIDS
policy, said in a pre-Durban interview: "We see the rapid spread of
AIDS disease in Africa because of cofactors malnutrition, sexually
transmitted diseases, other untreated diseases, and lack of education
and infrastructure."
It seems therefore to be common cause among the orthodoxy that the
scale of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, as compared with that in
western Europe or the US, has to do with something more than the HIV
virus itself.
Mbeki, in his speech, said: "As I listened and heard the whole story
about our country, it seemed to me that we could not blame everything
on a single virus. It seemed to me also that every living African,
whether in good or ill health, is prey to many enemies of health that
would interact one upon the other in many ways, within one human body.
"And thus I came to conclude that we have a desperate and pressing
need to wage a war on all fronts to guarantee and realise the human
right of all our people to good health."
The difference between Mbeki and his critics is not over whether HIV
is causative of AIDS that is a bizarre red herring, perhaps even a
pretext for ignoring the truth but on grand strategy.
The critics would like him to focus exclusively on HIV/AIDS, stemming
its transmission and treating the infected. He said, yes, we must
discourage dangerous behaviour, care for its victims and search for a
vaccine, but as part of a holistic effort to improve public health and
living standards, and reduce the poverty which happens to a breeding
ground for AIDS cofactors.
HIV is prevalent in Africa because it is, unlike in the US, largely
transmitted via a very common activity: heterosexual sex.
Now why should something that Americans routinely do with minimal risk
be so deadly in Africa?
The only reasonable, nonracist, answer is that most Americans are
pretty healthy. Their water is clean, their diets are rich, their
sewers work. They are by and large well-housed. If they contract the
pox they see a doctor and get a prescription.
Their immune systems are not under constant assault from tuberculosis,
malaria, sexually transmitted disease, helminths and, as Mbeki put it,
a host of "other illnesses with complicated Latin names".
Ironically, it may be that the African AIDS crisis affords an
opportunity for at least some African countries to obtain the
resources they need to narrow the yawning gap in health and living
standards between themselves and the industrialised north.
But that will not be the case if donors insist on limiting their
assistance to AIDS prevention, treatment and research.
Significant sums have been and are being promised for those causes.
The World Bank says it has set aside 500m to back African AIDS
programmes, so long as the recipient has one. The William and Melinda
Gates Foundation and drug company Merck have just promised Botswana
100m to combat AIDS.
That is wonderful, in theory. In practice, though, it only means that
there are large pots of money for groups that know how to write clever
grant proposals, full of the right buzzwords, without any guarantee
that they will use the money for any good purpose.
In the same vein, the generosity of the drug companies is suspect.
They will give away AIDS medicines so long as the medicines are
administered properly and safely, which they cannot be until the
recipient country has the proper infrastructure the clinics, doctors,
patient transport systems, for starters in place.
Then count on it only so long as the recipient government only uses
the drugs on AIDS patients (which will lead to further exaggeration of
the HIV statistics) and promises not to seek generics to treat other
conditions.
Listen to Mbeki, Durban delegates. The AIDS crisis in Africa must be
treated holistically. The cofactors are as an important target as the
HIV bug.
Remember the dictum of Louis Pasteur: "the terrain is as important as
the germ". Will you self-interestedly focus on the germ or will you
heed Mbeki's call to help cleanse the terrain?
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| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32378 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #32375] |
Sat, 15 July 2000 00:00 |
Elaine
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Hy kruip gat vir geld om ons ander skuld en goed af te betaal as jy my vra.
elaine
"E Bessinger" skryf in boodskap news:39703114.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van
> die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede.
>
> Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika.
> Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin
> klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit
> beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede
> tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die
> armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in
> armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie.
> Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank.
>
> Ernest
>
> "Elaine" wrote in message
> news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
>> Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr
>> Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie
>
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| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32379 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #32375] |
Sat, 15 July 2000 00:00 |
Leendert van Oostrum
Boodskappe: 1880
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Ek dink Mbeki is reg as hy daarop wys dat armoede sonder veel twyfel die
verspreiding van VIGS bevorder.
Sy toespraak in Durban het egter veel verder as dit gegaan. Hy het daarop
gewys dat, volgens die Wêreldgesondheidsorganisasie, "extreme poverty" op
sigself, en sonder die hulp van VIGS, die grootste oorsaak van dood is.
Kom ons aanvaar albei (en dis redelik om dit te aanvaar).
Maar dan moet ons ook vir onsself sê: Oor twintig jaar het die ANC armoede
in SA nagejaag as metode om politieke mag te verkry. Groot dele van die land
waar sy ondersteuners woon is onregeerbaar gemaak. Doelbewus, en eksplisiet.
Ekonomiese bedrywighede in daardie dele is doelbewus vernietig.
Terselfdertyd het hy internasionale ekonomiese oorlog teen SA aangeblaas.
Desmond Tutu is dikwels gevra hoe hy sy bevordering van ekonomiese sanksies
kan versoen met die lot van die armes. Hy is daarop gewys dat die juis die
armes en veral die swartes is wat die ergste daaronder ly, en dat die wit
"vyand" dit beswaarlik voel. Dan het hy (vanaf sy swaargelaaide tafel in
Bishops Court) geantwoord dat hulle daardie offer met graagte bring.
Die struggle het armoede in SA doelbewus bevorder.
Dus, volgens Mbeki: AIDS is the legacy of the struggle. De Kock het dosyne
vermoor - Tutu miljoene.
En laat ons nie vergeet nie: Die gedienstige Hollanders met hul hoogheilige
wysvingers wat die ekonomiese oorlog teen SA aangevuur het, die Gloudinas in
Kanada, die sedige Dene, Swede, ens. wat so ywerig was om "justice" in SA te
bevorder tot hul eie voordeel deur die ekonomie van SA te probeer knak is
net so skuldig aan die dood van elke VIGS-slagoffer in SA.
_Dit_ is wat Mbeki se standpunt beteken.
Mbeki is nie so dom om hierdie dinge nie te weet nie. Dis hoekom hy telkens
maar weer propageer dat witmense die oorsaak van armoede onder swartes is.
Dis nou newspeak in sy suiwerste vorm.
E Bessinger skryf in boodskap news:39703114.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
> Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van
> die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede.
>
> Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika.
> Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin
> klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit
> beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede
> tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die
> armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in
> armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie.
> Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank.
>
> Ernest
>
> "Elaine" wrote in message
> news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za...
>> Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr
>> Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie
>
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| Re: Mbeki en Vigs [boodskap #32503 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #32377] |
Tue, 18 July 2000 00:00 |
Lou
Boodskappe: 436
Geregistreer: July 2000
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Ferdi Greyling wrote in message ...
>
> Interresante perspektief:
>
> Simon Barber in Business Day:
>
Nou as die klomp joernaliste wat almal redelike :) intelligente mense
behoort te wees nie eers M'Beki se stellings verstaan nie hoe dan nie te
meer die gewone laag geskoolde SA burger?
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