Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE...
| Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE... [boodskap #10932] |
Thu, 02 October 1997 00:00  |
![Colin[2] is tans af-lyn](/theme/default/images/offline.png "Colin[2] is tans af-lyn")
Colin[2]
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: September 1997
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Forgive me, but I'm not going to requote large tracts of the work you
quote.
Racism is surely defined as people from a homogenous society reacting
to outsiders in an offensive manner. I can, to an extent understand
the frustration and bitterness caused by racism to those whose lives
it has touched. However, I question the dignity which research of this
nature has given the phenomenon, in I feel that racism is a retreat
for those so insecure in themselves that they have to find a common
cause against those different from themselves.
I also question your motivation for placing this rather lengthy
posting on this newsgroup. Firstly, this newsgroup is for Afrikaans
cultural issues and the language you used throughout was English. Is
the topic therefore Afrikaans and cultural. I think not. Secondly,
there is the implication that because the newsgroup is South African
(and Afrikaans) the potential readership would be more racist than
any other potential readership and thus more likely to respond to your
posting in an inflammatory manner. Should that be a reason, I would
suggest that you examine your own motivation as it seems as if it
might be racist in itself to me.
Thirdly, I believe it to be good form when using emphasis to indicate
which parts of a quoted text are original and which parts are own
emphasis. This usually allows a reader to distinguish the intent of
the original author as opposed to the prejudice of an editor, possbly
unknown to the original source.
Kind Regards
Colin
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| Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE... [boodskap #10942 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #10932] |
Fri, 03 October 1997 00:00  |
Etienne Marais
Boodskappe: 370
Geregistreer: March 1997
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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> the topic therefore Afrikaans and cultural. I think not. Secondly,
> there is the implication that because the newsgroup is South African
> (and Afrikaans) the potential readership would be more racist than
> any other potential readership and thus more likely to respond to your
> posting in an inflammatory manner. Should that be a reason, I would
My ondervinding, die afgelope jaar, is dat ander groepe o.m.
die "nie, oftewel minder Afrikaanse" soc.culture.south-africa
veel meer rassisme uitlok. Die gesprekvoering op hierdie
groep is meestal sinvol, beheersd en intelligent. Veel meer
as wat van die meerderheid nuusgroepe van soortgelyke
onderwerp gesê kan word. Dit, gewoonlik totdat 'n nuweling
inbars met of kamstige liberale sienings, of engelsprekende
rassiste wie nie onder dieselfde kam geskeer word as die
groot apartheid en nazi "sondebokke" nie.
Inderdaad, om 'n vooroordeel teenoor Afrikaners te hê is
niks anders as rassisme nie.
"Assuming prejudice is prejudice"
Etienne Marais
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| Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE... [boodskap #10944 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #10932] |
Fri, 03 October 1997 00:00 |
Colin[2]
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: September 1997
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:57:07 GMT, s941...@cosine.up.ac.za (Etienne
Marais) wrote:
>
> "Assuming prejudice is prejudice"
>
> Etienne Marais
Iemand het te minste verstaan. Was die oorspronklike stuk ( in Engels)
rerig so moeilik om te verstaan of kan ASAR nie redeneer nie? Is dit
maar deel van die "dumbing down" waarvan ons so baie hoor die afgelope
tyd?
Vriendelike Groete
Colin
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| Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE... [boodskap #10945 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #10932] |
Fri, 03 October 1997 00:00 |
Leendert van Oostrum
Boodskappe: 1880
Geregistreer: July 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Ek stuur 'n afskrif hiervan aan die outeur se e-posadres ook, ingeval dit
wel bestaan.
ASAR2001 wrote in article ...
> HOW did racism start in the first place and for whose benefit was it created?
> WHO benefits from it now?
>
> I maintain that the racism that haunts the world of our day was created for a
> specific reason, and that reason was to JUSTIFY the expansion of Europe,
> starting in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. This forces us to deal with
> both the genesis and the present application of racism.
Die "regverdiging" van die "expansion of Europe" was veel meer eenvoudig as
dit. Die Turke het Constantinopel ingeneem (circa 1460) en die handelsroetes
na die ooste afgesny. Europa moes ander handelsroetes ontwikkel.
>
> In his book "Capitalism and Slavery," Eric Williams places the ORIGIN of this
> revolution in historical perspective and calls attention to its early
> developments: When, in 1492, Columbus, representing the Spanish monarchy,
> discovered the New World, he set in train the long and bitter international
> rivalry over colonial possessions for which, after four and a half centuries,
> no solution had been found. Portugal claimed the new territories on the ground
> that they feel within the scope of a papal bull of 1455 'authorizing her to
> reduce to servitude---all infidel people.'
Die Qur'an bevat soortgelyke bepalings (of bepalings wat op soortgelyke wyse
vertolk word). Daarom duur slawerny in Muslimlande steeds voort.
>
> After carefully sifting the rival claims, the Pope issued, in 1493, a series of
> papal bulls which established a line of demarcation between the colonial
> possessions of the states: The East went to PORTUGAL and the West went to
> SPAIN. Though the announcement of the fact came much later, the European
> "scramble for Africa," and subsequently Asia and North America, STARTED THIS
> ACT. The labor and raw materials of Africa, Asia, and South America, and the
> West Indies FINANCED the European Industrial Revolution.
Die industriële revolusie was teen 1880 feitlik voltooi. Die "scramble for
Africa" het in 1880 plaasgevind.
>
> In the year 1457 the Council of Cardinals met in Holland and sanctioned, as a
> righteous and progressive idea, the enslavement of Black Africans for the
> purpose of the conversion to Christianity, and to be EXPLOITED in the labor
> market as chattel property. This devilish scheme speedily gained the
> sanctimonious blessing of the Pope and became a standard policy of the Roman
> Catholic Church, and later of the Protestant churches, enduring for three
> centuries.
Inderdaad een van die naarighede van die Christendom, Vira!. Die roomse kerk
het inderdaad slawerny aangemoedig as 'n vorm van sendingwerk. (Ek verneem
egter dat daar heelwat Afro-Americans is wat nogal saamstem dat hulle
tevrede is met die uiteindelike resultaat van wat met hul voorvaders gebeur
het - vir sover dit hulle raak. Blykbaar is dit een van die redes waarom
Clinton se plan om 'n komissie oor rasseverhoudinge in te stel nie so goed
wil vlot nie.)
>
> And so, the slave trade began, inaugurating an era that stands out as the most
> gruesome and macabre example of man's disregard for the humanity of man.
Ja wel. Die Jode, byvoorbeeld, dink weer anders oor "the era that stand out
as the most" - as ek dit nie mis het nie.
>
> The discovery of the New World opened up more than new territory. It opened a
> new era in human relations, mostly bad. The Europeans, being "Christians," had
> to find a way to live with their consciences after the formal STARTING OF THE
> SLAVE TRADE.
Volgens wat ek verstaan, het Rome deur die eeue ongeveer ses miljoen slawe
gehad. Arabië 'n soortgelyke getal.
> The Africans made the original mistake of asking the Europeans to
> settle some of their family disputes. Unfortunately, the Europeans many times
> conquered both branches of the family in question.
>
> But in order to justify the slave trade, they had to forget, or pretend to
> forget, all they had previously known about Africa. They had to forget that a
> lot of the early culture of Europe had an AFRICAN base. They also had to
> forget that there were periods when Africans and Europeans lived in
> comparative harmony and Europeans married into African royalty.
Ook een van die ouens wat beweer dat, byvoorbeeld, Ptolemeus, die
Wiskundige, 'n "african" was. Hy was inderdaad. Hy was 'n lid van die
Griekse kolonie in Alexandrië (Egipte). Volgens hierdie argument is
Verwoerd en Terreblanche eweseer "africans". Die huwelike met "african
royalty" verwys moontlik na verskynsels soos Marcus Antonius en Cleopatra.
Die meer onlangse Faroekfamilie was natuurlik Macedoniese Moslems wat deur
die Turke op die troon van Egipte gesit is.
>
> The mentality, the rationals, and the various ways to justifying the slave
> trade had already started in Europe with Europeans attempting to justify the
> enslavement of other Europeans. This is a NEGLECTED aspect of history that is
> rarely taken into consideration.
Inderdaad. Die woord "slaaf" kom van Slawië, die laaste deel van Europa wat
gekersten is, en baie gewild as bron van slawe. Blykbaar besit die mense van
daardie streek persoonlikheidseienskappe wat hulle gewild maak by
slawe-eienaars.
> There was AT FIRST a concerted effort to
> obtain European labor to open up the vast regions of the New World. It is
> often forgotten that in what became the United States white enslavement
> STARTED BEFORE black enslavement.
Daar was wel 'n stelsel van kontrakarbeid "indentured labour" waarvolgens
mense na die Nuwe Wêreld geneem is en in ruil daarvoor 'n bepaalde aantal
jaar gratis arbeid moes lewer. Hierdie stelsel word inderdaad uit 'n
regsoogpunt beskou as 'n vorm van slawerny, of ten minste dwangarbeid.
>
> In an article, "White Servitude in the United States," in Ebony November, 1969,
> the African American historian Lerone Bennett, Jr., gives the following
> information:
>
> When someone removes the cataracts of whiteness from our eyes, and when we look
> with unclouded vision on the bloody shadows of the American past, we will
> recognize for the first time that the African American, was so often second in
> FREEDOM, was also second in SLAVERY. Indeed, it will be revealed that the
> African American was third in slavery. For he inherited his chains, in a
> manner of speaking, from the pioneer bondsmen, who were red and white.
Ook waar. Slawe uit Afrika het persoonlikheidseienskappe besit wat hulle
meer gewild gemaak het by slawe-eienaars as enige van die ander twee groepe.
>
> The story of this succession, of how the red bondsmen and of how white men
> created a system of white servitude which lasted in America for more than two
> hundred years, the story of how this system was created and why, of how white
> men and white women and white children were bought and sold like cattle and
> transported across the seas in foul "slave" ships, the story of how all this
> happened, of how the white planter reduced white people to temporary and
> lifetime servitude before stretching out his hands to Ethiopia, has never been
> told before in all its dimensions.
>
> As a matter of fact, the traditional embalmers of American experiences seem to
> find servitude enormously embarrassing, and prefer to dwell AT LENGTH on Black
> bondage and the American experience. But this maneuver DISTORTS both black
> bondage and the American experience. For white bondage and red bondage are the
> MISSING legs on the triangle of American servitude. And this triangle defines
> the initial American experience as an experiment in compulsion.
>
> BOTH red and white bondage were integral parts of this experiment, but white
> bondage was particularly important. In the first place, white bondage lasted
> for more than two centuries and involved a majority of the white immigrants to
> the American colonies. It has been estimated that at least two out of every
> three white colonists worked for a term of years in the fields or kitchens as
> semi-slaves. A second point of immense importance in this whole equation is
> the fact that white servitude was the historic FOUNDATION upon which the
> system of black slavery was constructed.
>
> IN OTHER WORDS, white servitude was the historic proving ground for the
> mechanisms of control and subordination used in African American slavery. The
> plantation pass system, the fugitive slave law, the use of the overseer and
> the house servant and the Uncle Tom, the forced separation of parents and
> children on the auction block and the sexual exploitation of servant women,
> the whipping post, the slave chains, the branding iron; all these mechanisms
> were tried out and perfected first on white men and white women.
>
> Masters also developed a theory of internal white racism and used the
> traditional Sambo and minstrel stereotypes to characterize white servants who
> were said to be good natured and faithful but biologically inferior and
> subject to laziness, immorality, and crime. And all of this would seem to
> suggest that nothing substantial can be said about the mechanisms of black
> bondage in America except against the background and within the perspective of
> the system of white bondage in America.
>
> The Atlantic Slave Trade was different from early respects of slavery. Most
> enormously important is that it was the first form of slavery that was solely
> motivated by commercial incentives. In earlier times slaves enjoyed social and
> individual rights and were used as domestic workers and soldiers, since there
> were no plantations or industrial factories where millions of slave-labor was
> needed. The African slave trade was a CAPITALIST and RACIST invention.
Interessant. Hy bestee die vorige paragrawe om te argumenteer dat die
African slave trade geen nuwe uitvindsel was nie - bloot die voortsetting
van 'n vorige stelsel - dat selfs die detail van die meganismes reeds in
plek was toe die African slave trade begin het.
Snaakse argument.
Groete, Leendert
>
> References:
> Capitalism and Slavery by Eric Williams
> World's Great Men of Color by J.A. Rogers
>
> AUSAR (LORD OF THE PERFECT BLACK)
> Asar...@aol.com
> Au...@best.com
>
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| Re: Whites were in SLAVERY, Whites were in SERVITUDE... [boodskap #10947 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #10932] |
Fri, 03 October 1997 00:00 |
Joe Car
Boodskappe: 16
Geregistreer: September 1997
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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If you don't understand this - GET A DICTIONARY!
I'll keep it simple so you'll be able to translate it within an hour or
two. I'll even help you.
ASAR2001 jy verdien nie 'n antwoord in Engels nie. [double negative]
Hierdie is in Afrikaans geskryf want dit is die taal van die nuusgroep, ek
sal Engels skryf aan pesone wat belangstel in Afrikaans.
Slawerny is in die verlede. Die verlede is verby. Hou op om in die verlede
te lewe. Swart mense was die teiken van slawerny nie oor hulle velkleur
[combination] nie [double negative], maar omdat hulle 'n primitiewe volk
was (toe hulle ontdek was deur die Europeërs). Hulle was 'n maklike teiken.
Voor hulle was oorlogsgevangenes [combination] as slawe geneem (Romeinse
Ryk).
Word list:
nuusgroep: news group
velkleur: skin color
oorlogsgevangenes: POW
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