Tuis » Taal » Afrikaans, ons taal » Idioom: STUIWER
| Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9305] |
Mon, 12 May 1997 00:00  |
G.B.
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Geregistreer: May 1997
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Idioom: 'n Stuiwer in die armbeurs gooi.
'n Stuiwer in die armbus gooi.
"As ek ook nou 'n stuiwer in die armbeurs kan gooi,
hoekom is daar so min mense, behalwe Stefan Harms
en ek, wat idiome op die nuusgroep plaas? Stel net die
Kanadese van Suid-Afrikaanse oorsprong in hierdie
sake belang, of is meeste lede van die nuusgroep
maar net meer geinteresseer in argumenteer?"
Explanation for beginner-students of Afrikaans:
The literal translation of the above idiom is: " to
put a halfpenny into the collection purse for the poor."
In England one would probably say "to put in your
tuppence worth" or, here in North America, "to put
in your two cents' worth."
The "stuiver" was the smallest monetary unit in use
at the Cape until the mid-nineteenth century. The Dutch
East India Company introduced the colonial paper rix-
dollar at the Cape in 1781. It was declared to be equal
to 48 full weighted pennies of Holland (about 4s sterling.)
The value of the rix-dollar gradually sunk in exchange,
until in 1825 it appears to have reached its lowest point
of depression, and then became known as the "daalder."
(om te daal : to go lower. ) That is why Afrikaans people
even in the middle of this century would sometimes call
one shilling and six pennies a "daalder" or a "daler."
The various monetary units in use in Southern Africa
from the seventeenth century until now provide a rich store
of words enriching the language. It is interesting to note
that the word "dollar" comes from the Low German "daler"
from the German "Taler," short for "Joachimstaler," a coin
made from metal from Joachimstal, a town in the Erzgebirge
Mountains, now in Czechoslovakia.
Most older people in South Africa today will still have
intimate knowledge of the English monetary system that
was introduced in 1824. That consisted of pounds, shillings
and pence. Words like "crown" (5 shillings) half-crown
(two and a half shillings) guinea (twenty one shillings)
sixpence, tickey or three pence etc. will be found in books
written before the sixties. The present day system is a
decimal system, and the "rand" unit chosen was based
on the value of half a pound or ten shillings. I personally
think that it was quite a smart way to anchor the new
system, much more sophisticated and imaginative than
the way the British chose the names of the units of their
system, which gives me the cold shivers every time I
have to use it.
Gloudina Bouwer
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9317 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Tue, 13 May 1997 00:00  |
Stefan Harms
Boodskappe: 35
Geregistreer: October 1996
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Gloudina het geskryf:
> Idioom: 'n Stuiwer in die armbeurs gooi.
> 'n Stuiwer in die armbus gooi.
>
> "As ek ook nou 'n stuiwer in die armbeurs kan gooi,
> hoekom is daar so min mense, behalwe Stefan Harms
> en ek, wat idiome op die nuusgroep plaas? Stel net die
> Kanadese van Suid-Afrikaanse oorsprong in hierdie
> sake belang, of is meeste lede van die nuusgroep
> maar net meer geinteresseer in argumenteer?"
Jou stuiwer val hier by my luid en klinkend in 'n lee armbuers.
Dankie Gloudina!
--
Stefan Harms @ S.E.
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9349 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Thu, 15 May 1997 00:00 |
G.B.
Boodskappe: 2173
Geregistreer: May 1997
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mike...@peninsula.starway.net.au writes: > On 12 May 1997 21:46:56 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>
>> The "stuiver" was the smallest monetary unit in use
> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> at the Cape until the mid-nineteenth century. The Dutch
>> Gloudina Bouwer
>
> Hallo almal,
> If I may be permitted to put in my "tuppence worth" without ruffling
> any feathers, I'd like to correct Gloudina on the statement that the
> ha'penny was the smallest monetary unit. As far as I am aware the
> "oortjie" (spelling?) was the smallest currency unit until
> decimalisation circa 1960? The English translation = "farthing" i.e
> one quarter of a penny. I do stand corrected on the spelling and
> translation of "oortjie", however I do know that "farthing" is
> correct. I'd appreciate some corroberation from any "oldies" out
> there (no offence or disrespect meant).
> Mike.
Mike,
I am getting my information out of "The
Dictionary of South African English" (1991)
so I will just quote them:
"The colonial paper rix-dollar of the Cape,
first issued by the Dutch East India Co.
in 1781, was declared to be equal to 48
full weighted pennies of Holland (about
4s sterling).... the value of the rix-dollar
gradually sunk in exchange, till in the
year 1825 it appears to have reached its
lowest point of depression, viz. below
1s 5d. (G. Thompson, Travels 11, 1827)
Accounts are kept either in Pounds,
Shillings, Pence and Farthings, or in Rix-
dollars, Skillings and Stivers.
1 Stiver equal to three-eights of penny
6 Stivers : 2 and quarter pence, 1 Skilling
8 Skillings: 18 pence or 1 Rix-dollar
(Greig's Almanac 1833)
An early Cape shopkeeper kept his accounts
in rix-dollars, skillings and stuivers. In 1735 the
value of the rix-dollar was two and a half gulden,
but by 1824 it was worth only 1s 6d, and it was
decided to introduce British currency. (A. Gordon
Brown, S. Afr. Heritage 1965.")
So it looks as if the "stuiver" belonged to the
Dutch monetary system, and "oortjie" (farthing)
to the other system, which eventually took over
completely. In my Afrikaans dictionary the word
farthing is translated with "oortjie." However, the
translation of "it does not matter a farthing" is
in Afrikaans given " dit maak geen duit verskil
nie." The Afrikaans dictionary then gives the
meaning of "duit" also as "farthing." So it gets
a bit confusing here.
Now, I would like somebody to clear up
for me another thing. When long ago you
wrote things down in pounds, shillings and
pence, you put and s after the shillings,
and a d after the number of pennies. I wonder
where that d comes from. Could it be the "duit"
talked of above, and how come that was part
of the English monetary system?In Holland, even
today, they have a "dubbeltjie" (a penny, one-
tenth of a guilder.) I wonder if there is a relation
here.
Gloudina Bouwer
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9361 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Fri, 16 May 1997 00:00 |
Leendert van Oostrum
Boodskappe: 1880
Geregistreer: July 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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mike...@peninsula.starway.net.au wrote in article
...
> Hallo almal,
> If I may be permitted to put in my "tuppence worth" without ruffling
> any feathers, I'd like to correct Gloudina on the statement that the
> ha'penny was the smallest monetary unit. As far as I am aware the
> "oortjie" (spelling?) was the smallest currency unit until
> decimalisation circa 1960? The English translation = "farthing" i.e
> one quarter of a penny. I do stand corrected on the spelling and
> translation of "oortjie", however I do know that "farthing" is
> correct. I'd appreciate some corroberation from any "oldies" out
> there (no offence or disrespect meant).
Ja. Die Oortjie was 'n kwartpennie, en het twee mossies op die kruiskant
gehad - n.a.v. die Bybelse "twee mossies vir 'n stuiwer".
In die vyftigerjare kon jy een nikerbol daarvoor koop. 'n Swarte, met lae
van verskillende kleure binnetoe.
Groete, Leendert
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9376 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Sat, 17 May 1997 00:00 |
cth...
Boodskappe: 6
Geregistreer: October 1996
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Stefan Harms wrote:
>
> Gloudina het geskryf:
>
>> Idioom: 'n Stuiwer in die armbeurs gooi.
>> 'n Stuiwer in die armbus gooi.
>>
>> "As ek ook nou 'n stuiwer in die armbeurs kan gooi,
>> hoekom is daar so min mense, behalwe Stefan Harms
>> en ek, wat idiome op die nuusgroep plaas? Stel net die
>> Kanadese van Suid-Afrikaanse oorsprong in hierdie
>> sake belang, of is meeste lede van die nuusgroep
>> maar net meer geinteresseer in argumenteer?"
>
> Jou stuiwer val hier by my luid en klinkend in 'n lee armbuers.
> Dankie Gloudina!
>
> --
> Stefan Harms @ S.E.
'n Idioom wat ek onlangs vir die eerste keer gehoor het, en wat vir my
'n pragtige plaaslike vervanging van die "punt van die ysberg" is: "dis
net die oor van die seekoei"
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9383 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Sun, 18 May 1997 00:00 |
jgdebeer
Boodskappe: 37
Geregistreer: January 1997
Karma: 0
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Volle Lid |
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Chris Theron writes: > Stefan Harms wrote:
>>
>> Gloudina het geskryf:
>>
>>> Idioom: 'n Stuiwer in die armbeurs gooi.
>>> 'n Stuiwer in die armbus gooi.
>>>
>>> "As ek ook nou 'n stuiwer in die armbeurs kan gooi,
>>> hoekom is daar so min mense, behalwe Stefan Harms
>>> en ek, wat idiome op die nuusgroep plaas? Stel net die
>>> Kanadese van Suid-Afrikaanse oorsprong in hierdie
>>> sake belang, of is meeste lede van die nuusgroep
>>> maar net meer geinteresseer in argumenteer?"
>>
>> Jou stuiwer val hier by my luid en klinkend in 'n lee armbuers.
>> Dankie Gloudina!
>>
>> --
>> Stefan Harms @ S.E.
>
> 'n Idioom wat ek onlangs vir die eerste keer gehoor het, en wat vir my
> 'n pragtige plaaslike vervanging van die "punt van die ysberg" is: "dis
> net die oor van die seekoei"
>
>
My beskeie bydrae op jou teregwysing: Wys hom waar Dawid die wortels
gegrawe het. Soos ek dit verstaan - om iemand 'n les te leer .Die oorsprong
is egter nie vir my duidelik nie.
Groete
Jules
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9384 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Sun, 18 May 1997 00:00 |
G.B.
Boodskappe: 2173
Geregistreer: May 1997
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Jules writes: > Chris Theron writes: > Stefan Harms wrote:
>>
> My beskeie bydrae op jou teregwysing: Wys hom waar Dawid die wortels
> gegrawe het. Soos ek dit verstaan - om iemand 'n les te leer .
>
> Groete
> Jules
Ja, dis vir my 'n baie mooi uitdrukking. En die "Dawid" kom
glo van die Khoi woord vir wortel "davib, davieb" en het niks
te doen met die Hollanse naam Dawid nie. Ek hou so daarvan
om te sien hoe Afrikaans die Khoi en die San woorde bewaar,
soos in amber.
Gloudina
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| Re: Idioom: STUIWER [boodskap #9491 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #9305] |
Sat, 24 May 1997 00:00 |
vira
Boodskappe: 182
Geregistreer: April 1997
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Senior Lid |
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Ja, agteros kom ook in die kraal. Ek loop toe vanmôre 'n stokou storietjie raak, wat al vir jare in
'n kas rondlê. Dit gaan oor ons vorige 1 sent stuk en kom uit die boek "Voetestamp" deur Juta
uitgegee. Die skrywer noem haarself Tannie Mossie.
---
"_Die Mossies van die Suid-Afrikaanse Weermag_"
Die stil, gedempte atmosfeer wat altyd heers as ek in my hoedanigheid as Tant Mossie van die
Flossie, die jong soldate met hul vertrek op grensdiens groet, is iets baie spesiaals en roerends.
Wanneer my oog oor die jong, fikse troepe in hul netjiese uniforms en kort geknipte hare beweeg,
moet ek op my taak konsentreer om te verhoed dat my gedagtes dwaal of my stembande deur
emosie aangetas word.
"Manne, ek kom net om namens die vrouens en kinders julle te bedank vir julle opofferings.
Elkeen in die weermag is nodig en kosbaar. Julle is elkeen vir ons 'meer werd'. Om julle van die
opregtheid van ons dank te oortuig, gaan julle 'n 1c-stukkie ontvang wat julle op julle plaatjies en
in die jare na uitklaar op julle sleutelhouers kan dra. Elke slag as julle dit sien of voel, onthou die
Bybelvers: "Word twee mossies nie vir 'n stuiwer verkoop nie?" En nie een van hulle sal op die
aarde val sonder julle Vader nie. Wees dan nie bevrees nie. Julle is meer werd as baie mossies.
(Matheus 10:29,31).
Die geskiednis van ons 1c-stuk kom al 'n lang pad. Die vrouens en die kinders wat die
konsentrasiekamp op Bethulie na afloop van die Angloboere-oorlog oorleef het, het met hul
terugtog na Bloemfontein en hul plase by Onze Rust, plaas van President M.T. Steyn aangegaan
en versoek dat die Bybelvers op Suid-Afrika se nederige muntstuk geplaas moet word. Aansoek is
gedoen en die oorwinnars, Brittanje, het toestemming verleen. Die vrouens wou op die besondere
manier hul dank teenoor God dat hulle oorleef het betuig asook teenoor die Boerkrygers wat in die
veld vir volk en vaderland geoffer het. Daarom is daar toe en nou nog twee mossies op
Suid-Afrika se nederigste muntstuk uitgebeeld. Julle is mossies in ons eie weermag. Julle is meer
werd en die volk is dankbaar. Wees net besonder versigtig, versterk in die wete dat mense tuis
aan julle dink en vir julle bid."
Die besondere blik in die oë van die manskappe as hulle verby my beweeg om hul nederige
1c-stukke in besit te neem, oortuig my dat ons dapper jong "mossies" ons dankbaarheid en hul
waarde besef.
-----
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