Tuis » Ernstig » Veiligheid & wapens » Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking?
| Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102073] |
Mon, 28 March 2005 12:08  |
PietR
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Ek lees dat SA se vuurwapenamnestie sleg misluk het weens die feit dat 70%
van die vuurwapens wat ingehandig was, mense was wat of 'n geërfde vuurwapen
was wat hulle nie wil registreer nie want hulle wil dit nie gebruik nue, of
mense wat nie kans sien vir die verhoogde koste en probleme van die nuwe
lisensiestelsel nie. Van onwettige, gesteelde vuurwapens is weinig
gesien......
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102074 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Mon, 28 March 2005 22:57  |
Plato
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lol
Mens kon dit voorspel het maar ons gee deesdae die regering die
"benefit of the doubt" net om te kyk of ons verras word. Die waarheid
is egter dat ons maar elke keer reg bewys word. Iemand het onlangs aan
my 'n interessante opmerking gemaak.
Die persoon meen dat die huidige regering elke dag bewys hoekom
Apartheid ingestel was...
Iets om oor te dink. En nee Gloudina ek dink dit is hoogtyd dat jy maar
die ou forumpie vir Kanadese forums verlaat. Maak tog maar die reis
klaar...
Groete
Plato
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102083 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102074] |
Tue, 29 March 2005 07:49 |
PietR
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"Plato" wrote in message
news:1112050676.467043.121290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com.. .
> lol
>
> Mens kon dit voorspel het maar ons gee deesdae die regering die
> "benefit of the doubt" net om te kyk of ons verras word. Die waarheid
> is egter dat ons maar elke keer reg bewys word.
------Hierdie beaam vir my natuurlik die feit dat onkundige mense in
politieke poste sit en alle soorte van leke-teorieë uitdink en ondersteun,
sonder enige begrip van die gevolge van hul dade. Die probleem met
vuurwapens is nie die vuurwapen self nie. Dis slegs 'n instrument in die
hande van kriminele en jy gaan nie die kriminele element stop deur sy 'tools
of the trade' weg te vat nie. Vat jy die vuurwapens weg, dan gooi hy jou
met 'n klip vrek. Hulle sou veel verder gevorder het deur die strawwe vir
die besit van onwettige vuurwapens te verskerp sodat dit vir die mense nie
mer die moeite werd maak om onwettige wapens te besit nie.....en dan pas jy
daai wet toe en begin stelselmatig huise te 'skud' vir onwettige vuurwapens.
Hierdie nuwe wet het die kleinhandel vuurwapenbedryf erg geknou omdat die
administrasie van die wet nie heeltemal haalbaar is nie en wat het hulle
bereik? Die misdaad het verminder? Die bliksems met die onwettige wapens
lag net al harder want die regering vat nog meer en meer weerstand weg!
Hoe onnosel kan mens dan ook wees?
> Iets om oor te dink. En nee Gloudina ek dink dit is hoogtyd dat jy maar
> die ou forumpie vir Kanadese forums verlaat. Maak tog maar die reis
> klaar... -----Die ou dier is nog skaars weg van die rivier af by Marchand.......
>
> Groete
> Plato
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102087 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102074] |
Tue, 29 March 2005 19:07 |
Daun Johnson
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On 28 Mar 2005 14:57:56 -0800, "Plato" wrote:
> lol
>
> Mens kon dit voorspel het maar ons gee deesdae die regering die
> "benefit of the doubt" net om te kyk of ons verras word. Die waarheid
> is egter dat ons maar elke keer reg bewys word. Iemand het onlangs aan
> my 'n interessante opmerking gemaak.
>
> Die persoon meen dat die huidige regering elke dag bewys hoekom
> Apartheid ingestel was...
>
> Iets om oor te dink. En nee Gloudina ek dink dit is hoogtyd dat jy maar
> die ou forumpie vir Kanadese forums verlaat. Maak tog maar die reis
> klaar...
>
> Groete
> Plato
LETTERS
Police stations are not on the ball for firearm amnesty
March 29, 2005
Has anyone tried to take advantage of the firearm amnesty? I found a
firearm when clearing out my late mother's possessions; it had
belonged to my father who had died 10 years previously.
Obviously, I wanted to get rid of it and phoned a police station and
asked to speak to the officer responsible. He told me that I couldn't
just come in and hand it in; I had to make an appointment as he was
very busy.
He then asked me where I lived and, when I told him, he referred me to
another police station.
When I mentioned that the advertisement stated that firearms could be
handed in at any police station, he said that I shouldn't worry about
that, I should go to the station responsible for the area in which I
live.
I duly phoned the police station he recommended and asked to speak to
the relevant officer. I could hear the person who answered the phone
shout out to her colleagues: "Who is doing this amnesty thing?"
She then tried to put me through to an officer and promptly cut me
off.
If this is the way things are handled at police stations, the
expensive advertisements and media messages are a waste of time and
collection of illegal firearm will not hit the target at which it is
aimed.
Can you imagine someone who has travelled a distance, possibly having
to catch a couple of taxis, going back to the police station at a
later date with his illegal firearm because he failed to make an
appointment? That's supposing that he manages to find the correct
officers in the first place.
What a farce
Durban
http://www.themercury.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=299&fAr ticleId=2461959
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102101 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Tue, 29 March 2005 22:13 |
ek.kyk....@gmail.com
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Goeie vraag. Miskien is die ou emosioneel oorweldig soos ou Ferdi
Greyling deur die wreedhede van die vorige bedeling. O die land, dank
die sterre dat ons nou bevry is van tiranie deur die ANC...
Of hoe ou Ferdi "kan nie nou antwoord nie" Greyling? Maak ook maar net
jou bek oop as jy iets wil sê maar as iemand jou eenvoudige goed vra
dan hap jy "bubbles"...
Ag ek raak nou weer die onderwerp byster. Jammer Norman. Ja, ek wonder
ook hoekom...
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102133 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Wed, 30 March 2005 14:13 |
PietR
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Sal graag wil hoor jy handhaaf dieselfde beginselstandaarde deur
motorvoertuie en alkohol ook nie by jou huis te verdra nie want beide is
veel groter oorsaak van die lewensverlies as wat vuurwapens kan hoop om te
wees?
"Moira de Swardt" skryf in boodskap news:McGdnZV3QKNVL9ffRVn-1A@is.co.za...
>
> Many people, myself included, believe that firearms are a problem
> rather than the solution. I will not have one in my home.
>
>
> --
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
> I hope my standard of living doesn't go up. I can't afford the one
> I have now.
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102143 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102133] |
Wed, 30 March 2005 17:45 |
Moira de Swardt
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"Suidwester" wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" wrote in message
>> Many people, myself included, believe that firearms are a problem
>> rather than the solution. I will not have one in my home.
> Sal graag wil hoor jy handhaaf dieselfde beginselstandaarde deur
> motorvoertuie en alkohol ook nie by jou huis te verdra nie want beide is
> veel groter oorsaak van die lewensverlies as wat vuurwapens kan hoop om te
> wees?
I have distinctly ambivalent feelings about alcohol and was, indeed,
tea-total for fifteen years.
Motor vehicles are also killers, but the rate of use to the rate of
fatalities is actually quite small, while the rate of use of
firearms to the rate of fatalities is very, very high.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102166 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102087] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 09:43 |
Ferdi Greyling
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OK. Let's get the "reasoning" straight here - The govt announces all
illegally owned fire arms can be handed in for destruction. There is
not a flood of illegal gun owners handing in their illegal guns.
That is then somehow seen as a failure of govt.
I fail to see the connection.
It is rather a failure on the side of illegal gun owners, is it not?
(And a failure of reason on the side of the poster ....)
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:07:29 +0200, Dave wrote:
> On 28 Mar 2005 14:57:56 -0800, "Plato" wrote:
>
>> lol
>> Mens kon dit voorspel het maar ons gee deesdae die regering die
>> "benefit of the doubt" net om te kyk of ons verras word. Die waarheid
>> is egter dat ons maar elke keer reg bewys word. Iemand het onlangs aan
>> my 'n interessante opmerking gemaak.
>> Die persoon meen dat die huidige regering elke dag bewys hoekom
>> Apartheid ingestel was...
>> Iets om oor te dink. En nee Gloudina ek dink dit is hoogtyd dat jy maar
>> die ou forumpie vir Kanadese forums verlaat. Maak tog maar die reis
>> klaar...
>> Groete
>> Plato
>
>
> LETTERS
>
> Police stations are not on the ball for firearm amnesty
> March 29, 2005
>
> Has anyone tried to take advantage of the firearm amnesty? I found a
> firearm when clearing out my late mother's possessions; it had
> belonged to my father who had died 10 years previously.
>
> Obviously, I wanted to get rid of it and phoned a police station and
> asked to speak to the officer responsible. He told me that I couldn't
> just come in and hand it in; I had to make an appointment as he was
> very busy.
>
> He then asked me where I lived and, when I told him, he referred me to
> another police station.
>
> When I mentioned that the advertisement stated that firearms could be
> handed in at any police station, he said that I shouldn't worry about
> that, I should go to the station responsible for the area in which I
> live.
>
> I duly phoned the police station he recommended and asked to speak to
> the relevant officer. I could hear the person who answered the phone
> shout out to her colleagues: "Who is doing this amnesty thing?"
>
>
> She then tried to put me through to an officer and promptly cut me
> off.
>
> If this is the way things are handled at police stations, the
> expensive advertisements and media messages are a waste of time and
> collection of illegal firearm will not hit the target at which it is
> aimed.
>
> Can you imagine someone who has travelled a distance, possibly having
> to catch a couple of taxis, going back to the police station at a
> later date with his illegal firearm because he failed to make an
> appointment? That's supposing that he manages to find the correct
> officers in the first place.
>
> What a farce
> Durban
>
> http://www.themercury.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=299&fAr ticleId=2461959
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102168 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 15:39 |
PietR
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"Moira de Swardt" skryf in boodskap news:Cradnekw2Z-4TdbfRVn-vg@is.co.za...
>
> Not true. Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
---Militêre wapens word geproduseer met aanval in gedagte. Pistole en
rewolwers word gemaak bloot vir selfverdediging, maar as jy dit MISBRUIK,
dan kan jy iemand daarmee aanval. Waar's jou logika? Jy kan 'n motor
gebruik om jou kinders te vervoer, maar as jou kop uithaak, kan jy tussen 'n
skare mense injaag en baie mense doodmaak.
Knives have a use
> entirely apart from that of hurting or killing anyone. The knives
> in my home may have sliced one or two fingers although if one keeps
> them nice and sharp and stores them correctly they tend not to be a
> problem in this regard.
-----Duidelik weet jy nie veel van messe nie. Laat ek dit vir jou so stel,
dit knetter maar om iemand dood te maak met 'n mes met 'n lem korter as
100mm. 99,9% van alle knipmesse val nie in hierdie kategorie nie, MAAR jou
kombuismesse? Kyk bietjie na jou ontbeningsmes. Dáár's nou vir jou 'n
doodmaker as jy al ooit een gesien het! Hom plant jy lekker onder jou
kortrib deur senter in jou hart. Wat jy duidelik nie weet nie, is dat daar
wel messe op die mark is wat juis gemaak word om mense mee aan te val en te
beseer. Ek sou met gerief vir jou vertel dat messe meer mense seer en
doodmaak in die gemeenskap as wat vuurwapens ooit doen.
The same is true of hypodermic needles.
----Gee jouself in een van jou slagare vir jouself 'n luginspuiting en groet
sommer jou familie voor jy dit doen.
>
>> Further they aren't meant to be a solution per se, that would come from
>> better policing & more realistic sentencing for crimes of violence. I'm
>> not even going down the path of, "if you criminalise guns, only
>> criminals will have guns" as I consider it self-evident.
-----Self-verduidelikend vir wat? Dat jy as individu te slapgat is om
verantwoordelikheid te vat vir jou eie lot nie? Dat jy maar sal staan en
die krimineel se nonsens net vat en hoop hy maak jou nie vrek nie? Dat hy
jou maar kan verkrag en jy maak maar net jou bene wyer oop en sing Sarie
Marais vir hom terwyl hy jou misbruik? Noem jouself 'n lafaard....
>> The major problem is firearms or knives in untutored hands.
----Graag sal ek van jou wil hoor of jy al betaal het vir 'n gevorderde
bestuurskursus vir jou motor wat 'n veel groter gevaar aan jou gesin bied as
enige vuurwapen. Ek sou reken 90% van bestuurders op SA paaie is nie
heeltemal bevoeg nie. Is jy 'n uitsondering?
>
> Acknowledged. But gun accidents & tragedies don't happen if there's
> no firearm.
----En motorongelukke sal nie gebeur nie as hulle bevoegde bestuurders agter
die stuurwiele kry nie? In watter eeu leef jy? Dis nie die vuurwapen wat
die ongeluk maak nie, dis die MENS!
And I've yet to hear a testimony of how a firearm saved
> the day for the family in a burglary, hijacking, robbery etc.
----Miskien moet jy meer lees, hm? Net nou die anderdag was daar die antie
in Australië wat die kak uit misdadigers geskiet het.
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102169 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102143] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 15:43 |
PietR
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"Moira de Swardt" skryf in boodskap news:v5Gdnaz1rKRhetffRVn-og@is.co.za...
> Motor vehicles are also killers, but the rate of use to the rate of
> fatalities is actually quite small,
----Ek dink jy moet die dodesyfers op die paaie bietjie beter bekyk.
while the rate of use of
> firearms to the rate of fatalities is very, very high.
----Wat se strooi argument is dit dié? Natuurlik is dit gemaak net met een
doel en dit is om 'n koeël te skiet en as dit misbruik word, dan sal dit
elke keer 'n mens doodmaak. Aan die anderkant, 'n motor is nie gemaak om
mense dood te maak nie en kyk wat maak hy, met jy en jou soort agter die
stuurwiel!
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102170 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 15:50 |
PietR
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"Moira de Swardt" skryf in boodskap news:Cradnegw2Z-1TdbfRVn-vg@is.co.za...
>
> Very, very few of the firearms used in South Africa are used for
> sport.
En waar kom jy aan dié 'feite'? Uit jou duim uit, dink ek.
And I include hunting as a sport here.
---Vind bietjie uit die bedrag geld jaarliks wat aan jag bestee word en jy
sluk jou valstanne in.....
The reality is that most
> firearms in South Africa are purchased with the express intent of
> using them to hurt or kill another human being.
----Omdat ek nege wapens het sê jy vir my ek het nege keer die uitsluitlike
doel om moord te pleeg. Laat my dink....ek soek 'n teiken. Wil jy kom
staan?
>
> Incidentally, I'm advised that the "crack eye" needed for accurate
> marksmanship is genetic.
----Strontstorie. Wie jou ookal 'advise' is stupid. Soos enige ander
sport maak oefening en opleiding om die regte vaardighede te kry, die groot
bydrae tot sukses. Jy praat van blikkies skiet. Dit skiet ons met
ketties. Wat van 'n sniper skoot van 2,4 KILOMETER en dis 'n 'confirmed
kill'?
I discovered through my illustrious career
> playing marbles with the boys at primary school that I have it. -----Miskien moes jy by dokter-dokter gehou het? Of is jy lelik?
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102173 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 18:33 |
Daun Johnson
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:21:36 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
>
> When learning to shoot I whipped my all-male second cousins' arses
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>
>
>
Moira, ek het maar net aanvaar dat jy 'n lesbian is.
Maar hierdie woorde van jou laat my wonder of jy nie
dalk 'n crossdresser is nie.
Niks neerhalend hierby bedoel nie; maar watter een is die waarheid?
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102174 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102168] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 18:38 |
Moira de Swardt
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"Suidwester" wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" wrote in message
>> Not true. Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
> ---Militêre wapens word geproduseer met aanval in gedagte. Pistole en
> rewolwers word gemaak bloot vir selfverdediging, maar as jy dit MISBRUIK,
> dan kan jy iemand daarmee aanval. Waar's jou logika? Jy kan 'n motor
> gebruik om jou kinders te vervoer, maar as jou kop uithaak, kan jy tussen 'n
> skare mense injaag en baie mense doodmaak.
Using a firearm in self defence, a fairly rare happening, still
involves shooting at someone.
> Knives have a use
>> entirely apart from that of hurting or killing anyone. The knives
>> in my home may have sliced one or two fingers although if one keeps
>> them nice and sharp and stores them correctly they tend not to be a
>> problem in this regard.
> -----Duidelik weet jy nie veel van messe nie. Laat ek dit vir jou so stel,
> dit knetter maar om iemand dood te maak met 'n mes met 'n lem korter as
> 100mm. 99,9% van alle knipmesse val nie in hierdie kategorie nie, MAAR jou
> kombuismesse? Kyk bietjie na jou ontbeningsmes. Dáár's nou vir jou 'n
> doodmaker as jy al ooit een gesien het!
I'm not denying that knives can kill. Even a pocket knife can slit
the corotid artery quite effectively.
> Hom plant jy lekker onder jou
> kortrib deur senter in jou hart. Wat jy duidelik nie weet nie, is dat daar
> wel messe op die mark is wat juis gemaak word om mense mee aan te val en te
> beseer.
> Ek sou met gerief vir jou vertel dat messe meer mense seer en
> doodmaak in die gemeenskap as wat vuurwapens ooit doen.
I own a theatrical "switchblade" knife. One where the blade
disappears into the handle. Same principle, but designed *not* to
hurt.
This used to be true, but it hasn't been the case for many years
now. When I first trained as a first aider in 1984 there were more
stabbings than shootings, particularly domestic stabbings, and when
I trained as a basic life support paramedic in 1990 and did my
practicals at Baragwanath there were more stabbings than shootings.
That changed in the mid nineties. This is now true of the Cape
Flats as well.
> The same is true of hypodermic needles.
> ----Gee jouself in een van jou slagare vir jouself 'n luginspuiting en groet
> sommer jou familie voor jy dit doen.
I'm not denying that they *can* kill. They just don't kill very
often.
>>> Further they aren't meant to be a solution per se, that would
come
>> from
>>> better policing & more realistic sentencing for crimes of
>> violence. I'm
>>> not even going down the path of, "if you criminalise guns, only
>>> criminals will have guns" as I consider it self-evident.
> -----Self-verduidelikend vir wat? Dat jy as individu te slapgat is om
> verantwoordelikheid te vat vir jou eie lot nie? Dat jy maar sal staan en
> die krimineel se nonsens net vat en hoop hy maak jou nie vrek nie? Dat hy
> jou maar kan verkrag en jy maak maar net jou bene wyer oop en sing Sarie
> Marais vir hom terwyl hy jou misbruik? Noem jouself 'n
lafaard....
I didn't write the above. Get the attributions right.
>>> The major problem is firearms or knives in untutored hands.
> ----Graag sal ek van jou wil hoor of jy al betaal het vir 'n gevorderde
> bestuurskursus vir jou motor wat 'n veel groter gevaar aan jou gesin bied as
> enige vuurwapen. Ek sou reken 90% van bestuurders op SA paaie is nie
> heeltemal bevoeg nie. Is jy 'n uitsondering?
I also didn't write the above. I did do an advanced driver's course
in 1983, eight years after I did my driver's licence. I haven't
done the renewal of the advanced driver's course since then.
>> Acknowledged. But gun accidents & tragedies don't happen if there's
>> no firearm.
> ----En motorongelukke sal nie gebeur nie as hulle bevoegde bestuurders agter
> die stuurwiele kry nie? In watter eeu leef jy? Dis nie die vuurwapen wat
> die ongeluk maak nie, dis die MENS!
Well then, don't give PEOPLE firearms.
> And I've yet to hear a testimony of how a firearm saved
>> the day for the family in a burglary, hijacking, robbery etc.
> ----Miskien moet jy meer lees, hm? Net nou die anderdag was daar die antie
> in Australië wat die kak uit misdadigers geskiet het.
The other day in Australia. That's one ...
Moira, the Faerie Godmothe
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102175 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102169] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 18:42 |
Moira de Swardt
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"Suidwester" wrote in message
> "Moira de Swardt" wrote in message
>> Motor vehicles are also killers, but the rate of use to the rate of
>> fatalities is actually quite small,
> ----Ek dink jy moet die dodesyfers op die paaie bietjie beter
bekyk.
Prorata to the number of times a motor vehicle is used versus the
number of fatalities from firearms to the number of times used.
> while the rate of use of
>> firearms to the rate of fatalities is very, very high.
> ----Wat se strooi argument is dit dié? Natuurlik is dit gemaak net met een
> doel en dit is om 'n koeël te skiet en as dit misbruik word, dan sal dit
> elke keer 'n mens doodmaak. Aan die anderkant, 'n motor is nie gemaak om
> mense dood te maak nie en kyk wat maak hy, met jy en jou soort agter die
> stuurwiel!
I've managed not to have any accidents in which people were hurt or
killed in the twenty nine years since I first started driving and
I've driven many thousands of kilometres since then.
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102176 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102170] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 18:46 |
Moira de Swardt
Boodskappe: 41
Geregistreer: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Volle Lid |
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"Suidwester" wrote in message
> The reality is that most
>> firearms in South Africa are purchased with the express intent of
>> using them to hurt or kill another human being.
> ----Omdat ek nege wapens het sê jy vir my ek het nege keer die uitsluitlike
> doel om moord te pleeg. Laat my dink....ek soek 'n teiken. Wil jy kom
> staan?
So, the upshot of your "argument" is that as you have failed to
convince me that I should own a firearm or allow one to "reside" in
my home, you are excused from living with me.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102178 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102173] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 18:57 |
Moira de Swardt
Boodskappe: 41
Geregistreer: May 2006
Karma: 0
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"Dave" wrote in message
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:21:36 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
>> When learning to shoot I whipped my all-male second cousins'
arses
> Moira, ek het maar net aanvaar dat jy 'n lesbian is.
> Maar hierdie woorde van jou laat my wonder of jy nie
> dalk 'n crossdresser is nie.
> Niks neerhalend hierby bedoel nie; maar watter een is die
waarheid?
Neither.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102181 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102178] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 19:59 |
Daun Johnson
Boodskappe: 1155
Geregistreer: January 2009
Karma: 0
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:57:34 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
wrote:
>
> "Dave" wrote in message
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:21:36 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
>
>
>>> When learning to shoot I whipped my all-male second cousins'
> arses
>
>> Moira, ek het maar net aanvaar dat jy 'n lesbian is.
>> Maar hierdie woorde van jou laat my wonder of jy nie
>> dalk 'n crossdresser is nie.
>> Niks neerhalend hierby bedoel nie; maar watter een is die
> waarheid?
>
> Neither.
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>
'kay
Dave
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102185 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 21:05 |
Norman
Boodskappe: 5
Geregistreer: September 2002
Karma: 0
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Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "Norman" wrote in message
>> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>>> "Norman" wrote in message
>>>> Dave wrote:
>>>> > LETTERS
>
>>>> > Police stations are not on the ball for firearm amnesty
>>>> > March 29, 2005
>
>>>> > Has anyone tried to take advantage of the firearm amnesty? I
>>> found a
>>>> > firearm when clearing out my late mother's possessions; it
> had
>>>> > belonged to my father who had died 10 years previously.
>
>>>> > Obviously, I wanted to get rid of it
>
>>>> What on earth for?
>
>>> Many people, myself included, believe that firearms are a
> problem
>>> rather than the solution. I will not have one in my home.
>
>> A fireman is no more a problem than a knife or an hypodermic
> needle.
>
> Not true.
Yes it is, you need to read the stats.
> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
No they are not.
My Ruger MkII is made specifically for punching holes in paper. My
30-30 Winchester '94 is for coyote control & brush hunting for white
tail. The two .22 rifles are for varmit control & punching holes in
paper & my shotgun. Now my collection of Lee-Enfields are another
matter as is my Taurus handgun, however they are used, because I am a
LAW ABIDING person, only for punching holes in paper.
Firearms are produced with the CAPABILITY of hurting or killing
someone, that is a world of difference from intent.
Firearms are purchased for a variety of reasons but I guarantee that
apart from criminals not one purchaser buys a firearm with the intent
to hurt or kill another human being.
I think I have proven that firearms are NOT used with the express
intent of hurting or killing people
> Knives have a use
> entirely apart from that of hurting or killing anyone. The knives
> in my home may have sliced one or two fingers although if one keeps
> them nice and sharp and stores them correctly they tend not to be a
> problem in this regard.
More knives are used in domestic violence worldwide than firearms
Moira. That's a proven fact.
> The same is true of hypodermic needles.
> Very few households have such an item and the ones which do have a
> specific use for them (I refill my ink cartridges for doing
> calligraphy with a syringe and hypodermic needle. Now add to that
> the fact that my hypodermic needle can enter anywhere in the body
> and not kill someone - well, not immediately - it's most definitely
> not sterile and that the majority of my knives could only kill if
> used very specifically in certain parts of the head and neck. I
> have one knife which could be used to inflict a chest injury which
> would probably kill.
Your whole paragraph here is to put it mildly crap. A firearm can enter
anywhere in the body without killing. They need a bullet, fired from
it. They also need the INTENT to kill, of a human being just like
knives.
>
> Now add to the mix the fact that knives and hypodermic needles are
> freely available without licences and at every shopping centre where
> there is a general dealer and a pharmacy while criminals have to
> break into the home of a licenced firearm holder and steal such a
> firearm at some risk to themselves and you may change your mind that
> a firearm is no more of a problem than a knife or a hypodermic
> needle.
Sorry the firearm is not the problem, the criminal is & until you ie
the general public, start insisting that more of the national budget is
spent on crime prevention & stop blaming law abiding gun owners for the
actions of criminals, you will always have a problem. Do you think we
should ban TVs & HI-FIs because criminals break into houses to steal
them?
>
>> Further they aren't meant to be a solution per se, that would come
> from
>> better policing & more realistic sentencing for crimes of
> violence. I'm
>> not even going down the path of, "if you criminalise guns, only
>> criminals will have guns" as I consider it self-evident.
>> The major problem is firearms or knives in untutored hands. Unless
>> things have changed you didn't have to have anything but a white
> skin
>> to own a gun in South Africa (a generalisation I know but....) a
> course
>> & exam to establish competency would be a step in the right
> direction
>> followed by some kind of comprehensive record check. The cry of,
> "guns
>> are bad so ban them", smacks to much, to me, of book burning. As
> for
>> having one in the home it's a bit like I've always told my kids,
> "You
>> can always shove that BSc in the drawer & forget about it until
> you
>> need to pull it out". A gun is the most expensive piece of
> equipment
>> you never want to use.
>
> A firearm in a safe is pretty useless in an emergency.
Where did I ever suggest that a firearm should be kept in a safe? If
you own a firearm for self protection then it should be with you at all
times. Only hunting, target & collectable guns should be kept under
lock & key.
>
>> I know that there has been an exchange between South Africa &
> Canada
>> regarding gun control or more specifically a gun registry. As long
> as,
>> as tax payers you are prepared for another bottomless pit of
> corruption
>> & jobs for votes then follow the Canadian model. It is seriously
>> flawed, hasn't stopped the rise in gun related crimes & has cost
> to
>> date $Cdn 1Billion (R5.22Billion) & showing no sign of slowing
> down
>> (guesstimates put it as high as 5 times that).
>> Anyway rant over but remember, "It's the nut behind the wheel..."
>
> Acknowledged. But gun accidents & tragedies don't happen if there's
> no firearm.
So you are of the opinion that if every licenced firearm was handed in
& the possession of firearms made illegal that you would be safer? You
honestly believe that the criminal element is going to hand in theirs?
Car accidents aren't solved by banning cars but rather by better driver
education.
> And I've yet to hear a testimony of how a firearm saved
> the day for the family in a burglary, hijacking, robbery etc.
It doesn't make for good copy, especially if the reporter has an axe to
grind.
A couple of asides;
1. After 5 years in Natal & 10 years in Canada I apologise to you & the
guys from the Afrikaans ng if I have just reiterated what has been said
previously. I'm afraid I can no longer claim to be tweetaalige without
the use of a woorde-boek.
2. Unlike my friend brodie I enjoy your intellectual forays but here
you are arguing with your heart & not your head. You will never
convince me that in the face of a strong murderous criminal element & a
weak police/judicial system such as you have in South Africa that
anyone should voluntarily give up their only means on defence.
Norman
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102189 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 22:01 |
Julius Bergh
Boodskappe: 111
Geregistreer: February 1996
Karma: 0
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:30:03 +0200, Dave wrote:
>
>
>> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>
>>> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>>> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
>
>
> You are wrong, so totally kokai minded.
> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
> express intent of saving someone's life.
>
> If saving someone's life would include the killing of a murderer,
> it's purpose is of course extended.
> finis
>
>
>
> Dave
Jare gelede was daar n Prof (ek sukkel nou om sy naam te onthou) in SA wat gereeld geweerstories oor radio en TV vertel het. Ek het ook een
verjaarsdag n kopie van sy boek "Geweer Stories" (of iets degliks) gehad. Hy het vertel dat dit n miete is dat vuurwapens die eienaar teen rowers en
moordenaars beskerm. Daar sterf jaarliks meer mense deur hulle eie vurrwapens as die aantal rowers en aanvallers wat deur mense in selfverdediging
geskiet word.
Dit was jare terug - 1980's. Ek reken dit is seker nie veel anders vandag nie.
Groete
Julius Bergh (my rgte naam).
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102191 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102189] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 22:54 |
Daun Johnson
Boodskappe: 1155
Geregistreer: January 2009
Karma: 0
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:01:10 GMT, Julius Bergh
wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:30:03 +0200, Dave wrote:
>
>>> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>
>>>> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>>>> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
>> You are wrong, so totally kokai minded.
>> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>> express intent of saving someone's life.
>> If saving someone's life would include the killing of a murderer,
>> it's purpose is of course extended.
>> finis
>> Dave
>
> Jare gelede was daar n Prof (ek sukkel nou om sy naam te onthou) in SA wat gereeld geweerstories oor radio en TV vertel het. Ek het ook een
> verjaarsdag n kopie van sy boek "Geweer Stories" (of iets degliks) gehad. Hy het vertel dat dit n miete is dat vuurwapens die eienaar teen rowers en
> moordenaars beskerm. Daar sterf jaarliks meer mense deur hulle eie vurrwapens as die aantal rowers en aanvallers wat deur mense in selfverdediging
> geskiet word.
>
> Dit was jare terug - 1980's. Ek reken dit is seker nie veel anders vandag nie.
>
> Groete
>
> Julius Bergh (my rgte naam).
Daar was net een Prof daardie jare wat heelwat jare
in ondermeer (as ek reg onthou) die Landbou Weekblad
'n gereelde geselsie daaroor gehad het. Byna byna het
sy naam nou opgekom, maar toe weer geblur.
As ek reg onthou is sy seun in 'n skietongeluk dood.
Beslis praat jy nie van hom nie, want hy is die ou wat
gesê het dat jy nooit met 'n .22 na 'n inbreker skiet nie,
want dalk maak jy hom seer en dan rand hy jou aan.
Jy gebruik die grootste wapen beskikbaar.
Ek dink dat jy van hom praat. As hy so iets gesê het,
wat nie onmoontlik is nie, het hy dit gesê omdat hy
altyd soos in altyd mense na skietklubs toe genooi het,
om te weet hoe hul wapens werk.
Ons praat van die selfde ou, en as jy probeer voorgee
dat hy, deur so iets te sê, mense afgeraai het om vuurwapens
te besit, lees jy ander dinge in wat mense sê, as wat hulle bedoel.
Dit is maklik om iemand iets te hoor sê wat jy graag wil hoor.
Die politici is meesters daarmee.
Seker sal sy naam nou nou, wanneer ek dit nie meer soek nie,
in herinnering kom. Die van 'Jansen wil reg klink, maar ek dink
dat ek aan Murrey Jansen dink, wat natuurlik verkeerd is.
Dave Du Plessis (ook my rgte naam)
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102193 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102191] |
Thu, 31 March 2005 23:06 |
Daun Johnson
Boodskappe: 1155
Geregistreer: January 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:54:59 +0200, Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:01:10 GMT, Julius Bergh
>
>
> Seker sal sy naam nou nou, wanneer ek dit nie meer soek nie,
> in herinnering kom. Die van 'Jansen wil reg klink, maar ek dink
> dat ek aan Murrey Jansen dink, wat natuurlik verkeerd is.
>
> Dave Du Plessis (ook my rgte naam)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Miskien onthou ek reg as ek Jansen onthou
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102199 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102087] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 03:10 |
Alex
Boodskappe: 5
Geregistreer: April 2004
Karma: 0
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"Dave" skryf in boodskap news:gr8j41lrcnf4ncdebf45bb9jm8jsj59go9@4ax.com...
> On 28 Mar 2005 14:57:56 -0800, "Plato" wrote:
>
>> lol
>> Mens kon dit voorspel het maar ons gee deesdae die regering die
>> "benefit of the doubt" net om te kyk of ons verras word. Die waarheid
>> is egter dat ons maar elke keer reg bewys word. Iemand het onlangs aan
>> my 'n interessante opmerking gemaak.
>> Die persoon meen dat die huidige regering elke dag bewys hoekom
>> Apartheid ingestel was...
>> Iets om oor te dink. En nee Gloudina ek dink dit is hoogtyd dat jy maar
>> die ou forumpie vir Kanadese forums verlaat. Maak tog maar die reis
>> klaar...
>> Groete
>> Plato
>
If I had an unregistered firearm in my possession, and there was a risk of
being caught with this, I would never hand it in , I'd just destroy it
myself - with the corruption the way it is, that same firearm is likely to
be used by a criminal within a few weeks from handing it over to the police.
William A. Bong
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102200 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102193] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 05:57 |
PietR
Boodskappe: 3341
Geregistreer: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Jy dink aan Dr. Lukas Potgieter. Hy het in die Landbouweekblad 'n rubriek
gehad.
"Dave" skryf in boodskap news:1h0p419p1g94u5pa6d72e3kurk3n93peks@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:54:59 +0200, Dave wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:01:10 GMT, Julius Bergh
>> Seker sal sy naam nou nou, wanneer ek dit nie meer soek nie,
>> in herinnering kom. Die van 'Jansen wil reg klink, maar ek dink
>> dat ek aan Murrey Jansen dink, wat natuurlik verkeerd is.
>> Dave Du Plessis (ook my rgte naam)
>
> Miskien onthou ek reg as ek Jansen onthou
>
> DD
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102201 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102189] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 06:05 |
PietR
Boodskappe: 3341
Geregistreer: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Dr. Lukas Potgieter.
"Julius Bergh" skryf in boodskap news:9fso4158tacubrnjhroub8dfi343oa7v74@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:30:03 +0200, Dave wrote:
>
> Jare gelede was daar n Prof (ek sukkel nou om sy naam te onthou) in SA wat
> gereeld geweerstories oor radio en TV vertel het. Ek het ook een
> verjaarsdag n kopie van sy boek "Geweer Stories" (of iets degliks) gehad.
> Hy het vertel dat dit n miete is dat vuurwapens die eienaar teen rowers en
> moordenaars beskerm.
----Jy moet dit in konteks reg lees. 'n Vuurwapen op sy eie kan nie 'n
eienaar daarvan beskerm nie......dis die wapeneienaar se bereidbaarheid om
homself doeltreffend te maak met die wapen wat hom beskerm. Die wapen is
'n dooie ding met 'n sneller wat getrek moet word sodat dit skiet. Dit
bring ons weereens by die argument dat dit 'n krimineel is wat mense vermoor
en nie die vuurwapen nie.
As jy as persoon besluit jy wil paraat wees en jou eie veiligheid wil
grootendeels waarborg, dan koop jy 'n handwapen met genoeg stopkrag, jy koop
die regte patrone wat 'n mens in sy voete kan stop en jy oefen gereeld sodat
jy gemaklik is met jou wapen. Uiteindelik sal jy nie maklik aangeval word
nie want 'n parate persoon word maklik uitgeken deur kriminele. Julle moet
nie vergeet dat kriminele nie misdaad pleeg om in die proses seer te kry
nie. Hulle soek weerlose slagoffers uit. 'n Ou wat wakker is, sal hulle
nie sommer aanvat nie......
Daar sterf jaarliks meer mense deur hulle eie vurrwapens as die aantal
rowers en aanvallers wat deur mense in selfverdediging
> geskiet word.
>
> Dit was jare terug - 1980's. Ek reken dit is seker nie veel anders vandag
> nie.
>
> Groete
>
> Julius Bergh (my rgte naam).
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102204 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102202] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 13:05 |
DD
Boodskappe: 1165
Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:14:51 GMT, Julius Bergh
wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:57:16 +0200, "Suidwester" wrote:
>
>> Jy dink aan Dr. Lukas Potgieter. Hy het in die Landbouweekblad 'n rubriek
>> gehad.
>
> Skote Petoors !
>
Skòte Petoors! soos Julius sê, pas nogal perfek omdat
Dr Lucas Potgieter se rubriek werklik oor skote gegaan het.
Geweer en rewolwer skote. Jy is reg - dit is van hom wat ek
praat - en van wie Julius praat, en van wie ek sê dat hy 'n
voorstander van 'n vuurwapen aan die sy van 'n ervare
gebruiker is, en van wie Julius blykbaar die indruk probeer wek
dat hy anti-vuurwapen was.
As jy 'n leser van sy skrywe was, sal jy net miskien onthou wat
ek aangehaal het, oor wat hy gesê het van 'n .22 as beskermmiddel,
en dat hy gesê het dat jy die grootste beskikbare vuurwapen moet
gebruik wanneer jy dit op 'n kroek rig.
(asemskep)
Wanneer ek op die lang pad gaan, het ek 'n 762 binne reikafstand
in die kar.
Ek was lank die voorstander van 'n rewolwer, en het steeds een.
Die is egter nou die meeste van die tyd in 'n kluis met die pistool
in die deur langs my sitplek op die pad.
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102207 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102168] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 16:22 |
Norman
Boodskappe: 5
Geregistreer: September 2002
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Suidwester wrote:
>>> Further they aren't meant to be a solution per se, that would come
>> from
>>> better policing & more realistic sentencing for crimes of
>> violence. I'm
>>> not even going down the path of, "if you criminalise guns, only
>>> criminals will have guns" as I consider it self-evident.
Norman: As I wrote the above perhaps I should answer you.
> -----Self-verduidelikend vir wat?
So you don't agree with me that if you take away all legally owned guns
then the only people with guns will be the criminals?
> Dat jy as individu te slapgat is om
> verantwoordelikheid te vat vir jou eie lot nie?
While I have no problem with protecting myself, in a civilised nation
as South Africa was & still propports to be, then the law abiding
citizen is entitled to the protection of the law.
> Dat jy maar sal staan en
> die krimineel se nonsens net vat en hoop hy maak jou nie vrek nie? Dat hy
> jou maar kan verkrag en jy maak maar net jou bene wyer oop en sing Sarie
> Marais vir hom terwyl hy jou misbruik? Noem jouself 'n lafaard....
I'm a coward because I consider that "if you criminalise guns, only
criminals will have guns" to be self-evident? Maybe I've lost something
in translating your responce.
>
>>> The major problem is firearms or knives in untutored hands.
> ----Graag sal ek van jou wil hoor of jy al betaal het vir 'n gevorderde
> bestuurskursus vir jou motor wat 'n veel groter gevaar aan jou gesin bied as
> enige vuurwapen. Ek sou reken 90% van bestuurders op SA paaie is nie
> heeltemal bevoeg nie. Is jy 'n uitsondering?
What have driving lessons got to do with firearms licencing? Perhaps
the fact that the death toll on South Africa's roads is so high has a
lot to do with the fact that driving lessons aren't manditory in that
area as well. Firearm ownership (except in the USA) is not a right, it
is a priviledge. A priviledge, that makes a firearms safety course a
small price to pay & which Rambo types threaten at the expense of all.
Norman
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102209 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 19:34 |
DD
Boodskappe: 1165
Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On 31 Mar 2005 23:28:04 -0800, "Mr. Noise Guy"
wrote:
>
> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>
>> Acknowledged. But gun accidents & tragedies don't happen if there's
>> no firearm. And I've yet to hear a testimony of how a firearm saved
>> the day for the family in a burglary, hijacking, robbery etc.
>
dan is dit tyd dat jy begin lees - meer as net nuusgroepe.
Toe ek lees wat jy hier skryf het 'n koerantberig, fotos die
toetie, in herinnering gekom.
Omdat dit jare gelede gebeur het, kan ek nie die tyd of die plek
onthou nie, maar die berig is vertel met 'n foto van 'n tannie
wat met 'n 9ml op 'n deur korrel.
Sy en haar man was in hul plaashuis waar hulle 'n geluid in die
studeerkamer gehoor het. Sy het die 9ml uitgehaal en en voor die
deur van die studeerkamer gaan staan met die pistool daarop gerig,
terwyl haar man die polisie geskakel het.
Toe die deurknop draai, het sy geskiet.Net een skoot. Deur die deur.
En in die daaropvolgende stilte, met die pistool steeds gerig op die
deur met die gat sowat borshoogte, op die polisie gewag.
Die polisie het die deur oopgemaak, en niemand daar gekry nie. 'n
Paar kilometer verder op die plaaspad, het hulle 'n swaargewonde
swarte gekry, met 'n dooie swarte op sy rug.
Dit was duidelik dat die dooie een voor was, en dat die koël deur hom
getrek het, en ook die agterste een swaar gewond het.
Die polisie het gesê dat die wapens wat aan die swartes gekry was,
dit baie duidelik gemaak het dat hulle met moordadige voornemens
daar was.
Gelukkig vir daardie twee wit mense het mense soos jy nie jul sin
gekry om hul te ontwapen nie.
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102210 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 20:15 |
DD
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Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:46:26 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
wrote:
>
> "Dave" wrote in message
>>> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>
>>>> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>>>> express intent of hurting or killing someone.
>
>> You are wrong, so totally kokai minded.
>> Firearms are produced, purchased and used with the
>> express intent of saving someone's life.
>
> Yes, dear. And nurses and doctors kill people when they vaccinate
> babies and children. And blood transfusions are from the devil.
> Etc.
>
>> If saving someone's life would include the killing of a murderer,
>> it's purpose is of course extended.
>> finis
>
> And if it was *just* a burglar?
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>> Dave
>
As dit 'slegs' 'n inbreker was, vra jy? Ek is bly dat jy dit in
aanhalingstekens skryf.
Jan en Janine, (regte name en twee van my kliënte) het vir my vertel
dat daar by hul huis ingebreek is. Ek was saam met hulle daar.
Drie dae later stap Jan by my kantoor in en vertel dat daar by sy huis
ingebreek is. Toe ek sê dat ek daarvan weet, toe sê hy "nee, daar is
wéér ingebreek!"
Die kruks van die verhaal is dat ek toe saam met hom na sy huis is,
en daar het hy, terwyl hy vertel hoe gelukkig hy en Janine is dat
hulle nie wakker geword het nie, aan my die piksteel gewys wat
in die gang reg langs hul deur gestaan het. Weet jy wat 'n piksteel
is?
Dit was sy eie piksteel wat buite gestaan het, en na binne geneem is,
vir ingeval hulle wakker word tydens die inbraak.
Is dìt wat jy *just* a burglar noem?
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102213 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102209] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 21:09 |
DD
Boodskappe: 1165
Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:34:49 +0200, DD wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2005 23:28:04 -0800, "Mr. Noise Guy"
> wrote:
>
>
> Omdat dit jare gelede gebeur het, kan ek nie die tyd of die plek
> onthou nie, maar die berig is vertel met 'n foto van 'n tannie
> wat met 'n 9ml op 'n deur korrel.
>
> Sy en haar man was in hul plaashuis waar hulle 'n geluid in die
> studeerkamer gehoor het. Sy het die 9ml uitgehaal en en voor die
> deur van die studeerkamer gaan staan met die pistool daarop gerig,
> terwyl haar man die polisie geskakel het.
>
>
>
> DD
>
ek sien nou eers ek het 'n 9mm 'n 9ml gemaak:-)
Moet asseblief net nie dink dat dit 'n waterpistool was nie:-)))
Dave
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102214 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102209] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 21:46 |
Moira de Swardt
Boodskappe: 41
Geregistreer: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Volle Lid |
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"DD" wrote in message
>> Moira de Swardt wrote:
>>> Acknowledged. But gun accidents & tragedies don't happen if there's
>>> no firearm. And I've yet to hear a testimony of how a firearm saved
>>> the day for the family in a burglary, hijacking, robbery etc.
> dan is dit tyd dat jy begin lees - meer as net nuusgroepe.
> Toe ek lees wat jy hier skryf het 'n koerantberig, fotos die
> toetie, in herinnering gekom.
> Omdat dit jare gelede gebeur het, kan ek nie die tyd of die plek
> onthou nie, maar die berig is vertel met 'n foto van 'n tannie
> wat met 'n 9ml op 'n deur korrel.
Years ago. How many licenced firearms have been used to kill the
legal owner since then? And licenced firearms that have killed a
family member?
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102215 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102210] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 21:50 |
Moira de Swardt
Boodskappe: 41
Geregistreer: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Volle Lid |
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"DD" wrote in message
> As dit 'slegs' 'n inbreker was, vra jy? Ek is bly dat jy dit in
> aanhalingstekens skryf.
> Jan en Janine, (regte name en twee van my kliënte) het vir my vertel
> dat daar by hul huis ingebreek is. Ek was saam met hulle daar.
> Drie dae later stap Jan by my kantoor in en vertel dat daar by sy huis
> ingebreek is. Toe ek sê dat ek daarvan weet, toe sê hy "nee, daar is
> wéér ingebreek!"
> Die kruks van die verhaal is dat ek toe saam met hom na sy huis is,
> en daar het hy, terwyl hy vertel hoe gelukkig hy en Janine is dat
> hulle nie wakker geword het nie, aan my die piksteel gewys wat
> in die gang reg langs hul deur gestaan het. Weet jy wat 'n piksteel
> is?
> Dit was sy eie piksteel wat buite gestaan het, en na binne geneem is,
> vir ingeval hulle wakker word tydens die inbraak.
> Is dít wat jy *just* a burglar noem?
No, let's say it was one of those horrible street children who
burgled *my* home. Is there justification for shooting a drug
crazed, half starved, horrible, unarmed fourteen year old? Believe
me, I felt pretty murderous at the time.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102216 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102215] |
Fri, 01 April 2005 23:29 |
DD
Boodskappe: 1165
Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:50:24 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
wrote:
>
> "DD" wrote in message
>
>> As dit 'slegs' 'n inbreker was, vra jy? Ek is bly dat jy dit in
>> aanhalingstekens skryf.
>
>> Jan en Janine, (regte name en twee van my kliënte) het vir my vertel
>> dat daar by hul huis ingebreek is. Ek was saam met hulle daar.
>> Drie dae later stap Jan by my kantoor in en vertel dat daar by sy huis
>> ingebreek is. Toe ek sê dat ek daarvan weet, toe sê hy "nee, daar is
>> wéér ingebreek!"
>
>> Die kruks van die verhaal is dat ek toe saam met hom na sy huis is,
>> en daar het hy, terwyl hy vertel hoe gelukkig hy en Janine is dat
>> hulle nie wakker geword het nie, aan my die piksteel gewys wat
>> in die gang reg langs hul deur gestaan het. Weet jy wat 'n piksteel
>> is?
>> Dit was sy eie piksteel wat buite gestaan het, en na binne geneem is,
>> vir ingeval hulle wakker word tydens die inbraak.
>
>> Is dìt wat jy *just* a burglar noem?
>
> No, let's say it was one of those horrible street children who
> burgled *my* home. Is there justification for shooting a drug
> crazed, half starved, horrible, unarmed fourteen year old? Believe
> me, I felt pretty murderous at the time.
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
>
No Moira, there is of course not justification for.
Between my last letter and this (the past 90 minutes
or so) I saved a coloured drunkard from jail. He was
throwing beer bottles at vehicles and was handcuffed
and beaten. I was buzzed for help.
I told to the security chief to let him go, because he's
drugged and drunk. And at least ten years older then
the fourteen year old defended by you.
Dave
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102217 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102215] |
Sat, 02 April 2005 02:56 |
Norman
Boodskappe: 5
Geregistreer: September 2002
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "DD" wrote in message
>
>> As dit 'slegs' 'n inbreker was, vra jy? Ek is bly dat jy dit in
>> aanhalingstekens skryf.
>
>> Jan en Janine, (regte name en twee van my kliënte) het vir my vertel
>> dat daar by hul huis ingebreek is. Ek was saam met hulle daar.
>> Drie dae later stap Jan by my kantoor in en vertel dat daar by sy huis
>> ingebreek is. Toe ek sê dat ek daarvan weet, toe sê hy "nee, daar is
>> wéér ingebreek!"
>
>> Die kruks van die verhaal is dat ek toe saam met hom na sy huis is,
>> en daar het hy, terwyl hy vertel hoe gelukkig hy en Janine is dat
>> hulle nie wakker geword het nie, aan my die piksteel gewys wat
>> in die gang reg langs hul deur gestaan het. Weet jy wat 'n piksteel
>> is?
>> Dit was sy eie piksteel wat buite gestaan het, en na binne geneem is,
>> vir ingeval hulle wakker word tydens die inbraak.
>
>> Is dìt wat jy *just* a burglar noem?
>
> No, let's say it was one of those horrible street children who
> burgled *my* home. Is there justification for shooting a drug
> crazed, half starved, horrible, unarmed fourteen year old? Believe
> me, I felt pretty murderous at the time.
No justification whatsoever Moira. As long as this "drug crazed, half
starved, horrible, unarmed fourteen year old?" really is unarmed but
the moment he poses a physical threat to me or mine then yes I would
feel justified. But once again stop thinking with your emotions, you
don't switch on the car, put it in gear & stomp on the accelerator do
you? Like wise you would use measured reactions in the case of the
burgler. If he is unarmed & tries to escape let him go, only when he
offers violence do you use violence & if you are properly trained in
the use of a firearm you should be able to bring the situation under
your control without killing anyone or being killed.
Norman
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102219 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102207] |
Sat, 02 April 2005 05:53 |
PietR
Boodskappe: 3341
Geregistreer: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Norman" wrote in message
news:1112372523.845247.122830@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com.. .
> So you don't agree with me that if you take away all legally owned guns
> then the only people with guns will be the criminals?
-----Jy kyk simplisties na die storie. Hoekom WIL jy wettige wapens
wegvat? Om te keer dat daar nie wettige wapens deur kriminele gesteel word
nie? Hoekom wil jy hê dat kriminle die enigste mense met toegang tot
vuurwapens moet wees. Sodat hulle nog makliker kan moor en beroof? Jy
vergeet een ding: Die wettige eienaars pleeg nie misdaad met hul wapens
nie. Hou op om redes in die simptome te soek en behandel die siekte:
Misdaad.
>
>> Dat jy as individu te slapgat is om
>> verantwoordelikheid te vat vir jou eie lot nie?
>
> While I have no problem with protecting myself, in a civilised nation
> as South Africa was & still propports to be, then the law abiding
> citizen is entitled to the protection of the law.
-----Lekker! Terwyl jou vrou verkrag word staan jy en hande klap vir die
verkragter terwyl jy wag vir 'n polisieman om op te daag?
>
> I'm a coward because I consider that "if you criminalise guns, only
> criminals will have guns" to be self-evident? Maybe I've lost something
> in translating your responce.
----Jy's 'n slapgat omdat jy bereid is om jou REG om jouself te verdedig
teen kriminele weg te gee.
> What have driving lessons got to do with firearms licencing? Perhaps
> the fact that the death toll on South Africa's roads is so high has a
> lot to do with the fact that driving lessons aren't manditory in that
> area as well. Firearm ownership (except in the USA) is not a right, it
> is a priviledge. A priviledge, that makes a firearms safety course a
> small price to pay & which Rambo types threaten at the expense of all.
----As jy op 'n Afrikaanse forum deelneem, dan moet jy verwag dat jy gaan
sekere stories sukkel om te verstaan. Die vergelyking tussen vuurwapens en
motors het gekom omdat motors veel meer mense doodmaak elke dag en niemand
vra dat motors nie verban moet word nie. Dis dieselfde met alkohol en
rook. alkohol laat vrek duisende mense elke dag en die mense druk om rook
te verban en jy hoor nie 'n woord oor alkohol nie. Dit sê vir my die
gemeenskap [duidelik ouens soos jy] huigel as hulle hierdie dinge oorweeg.
As 'n ding hulle nie pas nie, dan bly hulle stil?
-----Die feit dat SA se doodsyfer so hoog is, spel jy grotendeels: A L K O
H O L.
-----Wapenbesit is in SA ook 'n voorreg en nie 'n reg nie en steeds mis jy
die hele punt. Die wettige wapeneienaars is nie die probleem nie! Die
kriminele is! 'n Wapen is 'n blote stuk gereedskap en kan nie op sy eie
moord pleeg nie. Hou op om soos 'n kind te redeneer. Of is jy dalk 'n
kind?
>
> Norman
>
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102221 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102219] |
Sat, 02 April 2005 09:07 |
DD
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Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 07:53:01 +0200, "Suidwester" wrote:
> ----As jy op 'n Afrikaanse forum deelneem, dan moet jy verwag dat jy gaan
> sekere stories sukkel om te verstaan. Die vergelyking tussen vuurwapens en
> motors het gekom omdat motors veel meer mense doodmaak elke dag en niemand
> vra dat motors nie verban moet word nie.
> en niemand vra dat motors nie verban moet word nie.
Ek sukkel ook om hierdie een te verstaan, Suidwester.
jy sê:
> en niemand vra dat motors nie verban moet word nie.
Vra almal dan dat motors wel verban word?
DD
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102222 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102219] |
Sat, 02 April 2005 09:38 |
Norman
Boodskappe: 5
Geregistreer: September 2002
Karma: 0
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Junior Lid |
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Suidwester wrote:
> ----Jy's 'n slapgat omdat jy bereid is om jou REG om jouself te verdedig
> teen kriminele weg te gee.
I'm sorry, I have in another response intimated that I am not
bi-lingual. I refuse to plow through the dictionary to translate your
insults because you are to much of an arsehole to understand that I am
pro gun & think that given the lawlessness situation in South Africa
that firearms for personal protection are necessary. Please don't shout
the usual kak about this being an Afrikaans ng because xcross posting
makes a liar of you. I refuse to be bothered with your narrow minded
attitude, thank God most Afrikaaners aren't as onsbeskaamd as you.
> Die wettige wapeneienaars is nie die probleem nie! Die
> kriminele is!
I said that & you called me a coward. Make your narrow mind up Van.
Norman
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| Re: Wapenamnestie 'n mislukking? [boodskap #102224 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #102073] |
Sun, 03 April 2005 06:42 |
DD
Boodskappe: 1165
Geregistreer: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:46:49 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
wrote:
>
>> this is the problem with asuming. I 'asumed' that that is the way you
>> felt. Sorry for my mistake. I blamed you for not reading while not
>> reading myself:-) I so dearly hope you will never need one.
>
> My chances of needing one would be less if so many legal firearms
> didn't get stolen by criminals.
Jou ware kleure - dit kanselleer natuurlik my apologie
Dave
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