Tuis » Algemeen » Koeitjies & kalfies » Bush wen die oorlog ....
| Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71031] |
Vr, 27 Desember 2002 16:54  |
Vusi
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Dis baie duidelik dat die sielkundigeoorlog deur Bush gewen word - sy
dreigemente van 'n oorlog het Sadam reeds behoorlik laat steier om
toegewings te maak wat andersins menselewens sou verg.
Tien uit tien George W. !
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71044 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71031] |
Vr, 27 Desember 2002 22:34  |
loes&patrick
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Wat nou - tien uit tien vir iemand
die oor enige tyd die dood en wellig
verminking van honderde onskuldige
burgers, mannen, vrouen en kinders
op sy geweten sal het.
Nee ou Jonas is jy werklik blind en doof?
Patrick
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71045 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71031] |
Vr, 27 Desember 2002 22:37 |
Waaierstertmuis
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"Jonas" wrote:
> Tien uit tien George W. !
Om jou hero te kwoteer: "Families is where our nation finds hope,
where wings take dream"
Dus - dream on ou Jonas - dream on....en gaan vlieg.
Of soos jou hero, Dubya bin George ook sê: "Agios Amido"
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71049 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71045] |
Vr, 27 Desember 2002 23:41 |
Arthur
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"Katryn" schreef ...
> "Jonas" wrote:
>> Tien uit tien George W. !
>
> Om jou hero te kwoteer: "Families is where our nation finds hope,
> where wings take dream"
>
> Dus - dream on ou Jonas - dream on....en gaan vlieg.
> Of soos jou hero, Dubya bin George ook sê: "Agios Amido"
Ja Jonas, waarom is jy eintlik pro-Bush? Sadam is mos 'n baie aardige man?
Arthur
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71050 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71049] |
Sa, 28 Desember 2002 00:32 |
Waaierstertmuis
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"Arthur" wrote:
> Ja Jonas, waarom is jy eintlik pro-Bush? Sadam is mos 'n baie aardige man?
Soos John Steinbeck se Casy in Grapes of Wrath, sou sê: "I know
this--a man got to do what he got to do."
en " On'y one thing in this worl' I'm sure of, and that's I'm sure
nobody got a right to mess with a fella's life. He's got to do it all
hisself. Help him maybe, but not tell him what to do. A fella
builds his own sins right up from the ground"
Arthur, dink jy dis okay vir Bush om aan die res van die wereld te wil
voorskryf wat en hoe hulle moet leef en regeer?
Selfs vir Sadam?
Elkgeval - hier is 'n interessante stukkie (vir my interessant
elkgeval) van so paar dae gelede.
THE SECRET WAR ON IRAQ
by John Pilger
The Mirror, December 20, 2002
THE American and British attack on Iraq has already begun. While the
Blair government continues to claim in Parliament that "no final
decision has been taken", Royal Air Force and US fighter bombers have
secretly changed tactics and escalated their "patrols" over Iraq to
an all-out assault on both military and civilian targets. American
and British bombing of Iraq has increased by 300 per cent. Between
March and November, according to Ministry of Defence replies to MPs,
the RAF dropped more than 124 tonnes of bombs. From August to
December, there were 62 attacks by American F-16 aircraft and RAF
Tornadoes - an average of one bombing raid every two days. These are
said to have been aimed at Iraqi "air defences", but many have fallen
on mostly populated areas, where civilian deaths are unavoidable.
Under the United Nations Charter and the conventions of war and
international law, the attacks amount to acts of piracy: no
different, in principle, from the German Luftwaffe's bombing in Spain
in the 1930s as precursor to its invasion of Europe. The bombing is
a "secret war" that has seldom been news. Since 1991, and especially
in the last four years, it has been unrelenting and is now deemed the
longest Anglo-American campaign of aerial bombardment since World War
Two. The US and British governments justify it by claiming they have
a UN mandate to police so-called "no-fly zones" which they declared
following the Gulf War. They say these "zones", which give them
control of most of Iraq's airspace, are legal and supported by UN
Security Council Resolution 688. This is false. There are no
references to no fly zones in any Security Council resolution. To be
sure about this, I asked Dr Boutros Boutros-Ghali, who was Secretary
General of the United Nations in 1992 when Resolution 688 was
passed. "The issue of no fly zones was not raised and therefore not
debated: not a word," he said. "They offer no legitimacy to countries
sending their aircraft to attack Iraq." In 1999, Tony Blair claimed
the no fly zones allowed the US and Britain to perform "a vital
humanitarian task" in protecting the Kurds in the north of Iraq and
the ethnic Marsh Arabs in the south. In fact, British and American
aircraft have actually provided cover for neighbouring Turkey's
repeated invasions of northern, Kurdish Iraq.
TURKEY is critical to the American "world order". Overseeing the
oilfields of the Middle East and Central Asia, it is a member of Nato
and the recipient of billion of dollars' worth of American weapons
and military equipment. It is also where British and American bombers
are based. A long-running insurrection by Turkey's Kurdish population
is regarded by Washington as a threat to the "stability" of
Turkey's "democracy" that is a front for its military which is among
the world's worst violators of human rights. Hundreds of thousands of
Turkish Kurds have been displaced and an estimated 30,000 killed.
Turkey, unlike Iraq, is "our friend". In 1995 and 1997, as many as
50,000 Turkish troops, backed by tanks and fighter aircraft, occupied
what the West called "Kurdish safe havens". They terrorised Kurdish
villages and murdered civilians. In December 2000, they were back,
committing the atrocities that the Turkish military commits with
immunity against its own Kurdish population. For joining the
US "coalition" against Iraq, the Turkish regime is to be rewarded
with a bribe worth $6billion. Turkey's invasions are rarely reported
in Britain. So great is the collusion of the Blair government that,
virtually unknown to Parliament and the British public, the RAF and
the Americans have, from time to time, deliberately suspended
their "humanitarian" patrols to allow the Turks to get on with
killing Kurds in Iraq. In March last year, RAF pilots patrolling
the "no fly zone" in Kurdish Iraq publicly protested for the first
time about their enforced complicity in the Turkish campaign. The
pilots complained that they were frequently ordered to return to
their base in Turkey to allow the Turkish air force to bomb the very
people they were meant to be "protecting". Speaking on a non-
attributable basis to Dr Eric Herring, a senior lecturer in politics
at Bristol University and a specialist on Iraqi sanctions, the pilots
said whenever the Turks wanted to attack the Kurds in Iraq,
RAFpatrols were recalled to base and ground crews were told to switch
off their radar - so that the Turks' targets would not be visible.
One British pilot reported seeing the devastation in Kurdish villages
caused by the attacks once he had resumed his patrol. AMERICAN pilots
who fly in tandem with the British, are also ordered to turn their
planes around and turn back to Turkey to allow the Turks to devastate
the Kurdish "safe havens". "You'd see Turkish F-14s and F-16s
inbound, loaded to the gills with munitions," one pilot told the
Washington Post. "Then they'd come out half an hour later with their
munitions expended." When the Americans returned to Iraqi air space,
he said, they would see "burning villages, lots of smoke and fire."
The Turks do no more than American and British aircraft in their
humanitarian guise. The sheer scale of the Anglo-American bombing is
astonishing, with Britain a very junior partner. During the 18 months
to January 1999 (the last time I was able to confirm official US
figures) American aircraft flew 36,000 sorties over Iraq, including
24,000 combat missions. The term "combat" is highly deceptive. Iraq
has virtually no air force and no modern air defences. Thus, "combat"
means dropping bombs or firing missiles at infrastructure that has
been laid to waste by a 12-year-old embargo. The Wall Street Journal,
the authentic voice of the American establishment, described this
eloquently when it reported that the US faced "a genuine dilemma" in
Iraq.
After eight years of enforcing a no fly zone in northern (and
southern) Iraq, few targets remain. "We're down to the last
outhouse," one US official protested. I have seen the result of these
attacks. When I drove from the northern city of Mosul three years
ago, I saw the remains of an agricultural water tanker and truck,
riddled with bullet holes, shrapnel from a missile, a shoe and the
wool and skeletons of about 150 sheep. A family of six, a shepherd,
his father and his wife and four children, were blown to pieces here.
It was treeless, open country: a moonscape. The shepherd, his family
and his sheep would have been clearly visible from the air. The
shepherd's brother, Hussain Jarsis, agreed to meet me at the cemetery
where the family is buried. He arrived in an old Toyota van with the
widow, who was hunched with grief, her face covered. She held the
hand of her one remaining child, and they sat beside the mounds of
earth that are the four children's graves. "I want to see the pilot
who killed my children," she shouted across to us. The shepherd's
brother told me, "I heard explosions, and when I arrived to look for
my brother and family, the planes were circling overhead. I hadn't
reached the causeway when the fourth bombardment took place. The last
two rockets hit them. "At the time I couldn't grasp what was going
on. The truck was burning. It was a big truck, but it was ripped to
pieces. Nothing remained except the tyres and the numberplate. "We
saw three corpses, but the rest were just body parts. With the last
rocket, I could see the sheep blasted into the air." It was not known
if American or British aircraft had done this. When details of the
attack were put to the Ministry of Defence in London, an official
said, "We reserve the right to take robust action when threatened."
This attack was significant, because it was investigated and verified
by the senior United Nations official in Iraq at the time, Hans Von
Sponeck, who drove there specially from Baghdad. He confirmed that
nothing nearby resembled a military installation.
Von Sponeck recorded his finding in a confidential internal document
entitled, "Air Strikes in Iraq", prepared by the UN Security Section
(UNOHCI). HE also confirmed dozens of similar attacks and these are
documented - attacks on villages, a fishermen's wharf, nearby a UN
food warehouse. So regular were the attacks that Von Sponeck ordered
UN relief convoys suspended every afternoon. FOR this, Von Sponeck, a
senior United Nations civil servant with a distinguished career all
over the world, made powerful enemies in Washington and London. The
Americans demanded that Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General, sack
him and were surprised when Annan stood by his chief representative
in Iraq. However, within a few months, Von Sponeck felt he could no
longer run a humanitarian programme in Iraq that was threatened both
by the illegal bombing and by a deliberate American policy of
blocking humanitarian supplies. He resigned in protest, just as his
predecessor, Denis Halliday, a Deputy Under Secretary of the UN, had
done. Halliday called the US and British-driven embargo "genocidal".
It is now clear from official documents that the United States is
preparing for a possible slaughter in Iraq. The Pentagon's "Doctrine
for Joint Urban Operations" says that unless Baghdad falls quickly it
has to be the target of "overwhelming firepower". The resistance of
Stalingrad in World War Two is given as a "lesson". Cluster bombs,
deep penetration "bunker" bombs and depleted uranium will almost
certainly be used. Depleted uranium is a weapon of mass destruction.
Coated on missiles, and tank shells, its explosive force spreads
radiation over a wide area, especially in the desert dust. Professor
Doug Rokke, the US army physicist in charge of cleaning up depleted
uranium in Kuwait told me, "I am like most people in southern Iraq. I
have 5,000 times the recommended level of radiation in my body. What
we're seeing now, respiratory problems, kidney problems, cancers are
the direct result. "The controversy over whether or not it's the
cause of these problems is a manufactured one. My own ill-health is a
testament to that."
THE most devastating weapon of mass destruction was briefly in the
news last week when Unicef, the United Nations children's Fund,
released its annual State of the World's Children report. The human
cost of the American-driven embargo of Iraq is spelt out in
statistics that require no comment. "Iraq's child mortality rate has
nearly tripled since 1990 to levels found in some of the world's
least-developed countries," said the report. "The country's
regression over the past decade is by far the most severe of the 193
countries surveyed. Unicef said that a quarter of Iraqi babies were
now underweight and that more than a fifth were stunted from
malnutrition." Under the rules of the embargo, Iraqis are allowed
less than #100 per person with which to sustain life for an entire
year. To date, the cost of the current, "secret" and illegal British
bombing of Iraq is a billion pounds.
America tore out 8000 pages of Iraq dossier
Sunday Herald -
22 December 2002
By James Cusick and Felicity Arbuthnot
THE United States edited out more than 8000 crucial pages of Iraq's
11,800-page dossier on weapons, before passing on a sanitised version
to the 10 non-permanent members of the United Nations security
council. The full extent of Washington's complete control over who
sees what in the crucial Iraqi dossier calls into question the
allegations made by US Secretary of State Colin Powell
that 'omissions' in the document constituted a 'material breach' of
the latest UN resolution on Iraq.
Last week, Secretary General of the UN Kofi Annan accepted that it
was 'unfortunate' that his organisation had allowed the US to take
the only complete dossier and edit it. He admitted 'the approach and
style were wrong' and Norway, a member of the security council, says
it is being treated like a 'second-class country'. Although Powell
called the Iraqi dossier a 'catalogue of recycled information and
flagrant omissions', the non-permanent members of the security
council will have no way of testing the US claims for themselves.
This will be crucial if the US and the UK go back to the security
council seeking explicit authorisation for war on Iraq if breaches of
resolution 1441 are confirmed when the weapons inspectors -- this
weekend investigating 10 sites in Iraq, including an oil refinery
south of Baghdad -- deliver their report to the UN next month. A UN
source in New York said: 'The questions being asked are valid. What
did the US take out? And if weapons inspectors are supposed to be
checking against the dossier's content, how can any future claim be
verified. In effect the US is saying trust us, and there are many who
just will not.' Current and former UN diplomats are said to be livid
at what some have called the 'theft' of the Iraqi document by the US.
Hans von Sponeck, the former assistant general secretary of the UN
and the UN's humanitarian co-ordinator in Iraq until 2000,
said: 'This is an outrageous attempt by the US to mislead.' Although
the five permanent members of the security council -- the US, the UK,
France, China and Russia -- have had access to the complete version,
there was agreement that the US be allowed to edit the dossier on the
ground that its contents were 'risky' in terms of security on weapons
proliferation. Yesterday, US President George W Bush announced that a
planned trip to several African countries, scheduled for January, had
been cancelled. As he gave the go-ahead to double the current 50,000
US troops deployed in the Gulf by early January, he used his weekly
radio address to say that 'the men and women in the [US] military,
many of whom will spend Christmas at posts and bases far from home'
were the only thing that stood between 'Americans and grave danger'.
An equally pessimistic view of the immediate future came from the
Vatican. Pope John Paul II promised the Catholic church would not
cease to have its voice heard and would offer prayers 'in the face of
this horizon bathed in blood'. Despite the prayers, the US military
isn't expecting peace.
Yesterday, General Richard Myers, chairman of the US joint chiefs of
staff, was asked if US forces were ready if called upon immediately.
General Myers simply said: 'You bet.' The language coming from
Baghdad was equally gung ho. The Iraqi newspaper Babel, owned by
Saddam Hussein's eldest son Uday, likened US and UK political leaders
to ruthless Mongol conquerors of the past.
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71055 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71050] |
Sa, 28 Desember 2002 06:54 |
Vusi
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Liewe Katryn.
Dit is nou maar 'n voldwonge feit dat daar altyd een "heersende" land sal
wees - of jy of ek nou daarvan hou of nie. Dit is 'n voldwonge feit. Sou jy
dit wil weg wens - gaan voort.
Ek beskou die VSA as die mees geskikte land om tans die rol as heerser te
speel. (Jy kan natuurlik die Sjinese (vasteland) ondersteun - hulle sal jou
kritiek natuurlik nie duld nie ..)
Het jy ook 'n probleem met die VSA se rol om Noord-Korea aan bande te lê?
Katryn - ek luister graag na jou alternatiewe ...
(Arthur en l&p kan jou help - sou hulle wil meedoen ...)
"Katryn" skryf in boodskap news:6crp0vgea0fp2suulhktn6nogk6pci4sm5@4ax.com...
> "Arthur" wrote:
>
>> Ja Jonas, waarom is jy eintlik pro-Bush? Sadam is mos 'n baie aardige man?
> Soos John Steinbeck se Casy in Grapes of Wrath, sou sê: "I know
> this--a man got to do what he got to do."
> en " On'y one thing in this worl' I'm sure of, and that's I'm sure
> nobody got a right to mess with a fella's life. He's got to do it all
> hisself. Help him maybe, but not tell him what to do. A fella
> builds his own sins right up from the ground"
>
> Arthur, dink jy dis okay vir Bush om aan die res van die wereld te wil
> voorskryf wat en hoe hulle moet leef en regeer?
> Selfs vir Sadam?
>
> Elkgeval - hier is 'n interessante stukkie (vir my interessant
> elkgeval) van so paar dae gelede.
[snip]
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71060 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71050] |
Sa, 28 Desember 2002 08:58 |
Arthur
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"Katryn" schreef...
> Arthur, dink jy dis okay vir Bush om aan die res van die wereld te wil
> voorskryf wat en hoe hulle moet leef en regeer?
Nee, Katryn, ik vind Bush ook geen aardige man. Ik ageer vooral tegen die
anti-Amerikaanse sentimenten hier. Het is altijd al zo makkelijk geweest om
anti-Amerikaans te zijn. Amerikanen zijn beschaafd en zullen je niet
aanvallen op het feit dat je anti-Amerikaans bent of was. Amerika is zelfs
tot nu toe het enige land dat zijn verslagen vijanden economisch weer op het
juiste spoor zet .... begin in dit verband alsjeblieft niet over
eigenbelang, want ze hoefden het niet te doen en wie zegt dat je er zelf
slechter van moet worden als je iemand helpt....
Anti-Sadam zijn is moeilijker, want dan loop je het risico de Moslimwereld
tegen je te krijgen. Elementen in die wereld reageren heel wat minder
beschaafd als je tegen ze bent en ze zijn ongelofelijk haatdragend. We
krijgen nog steeds de kruistochten van 800 jaar geleden voor ons voeten
geworden als we wijzen op wantoestanden (genocide op de Armenen, herhaalde
oorlogen, het feit dat ze eigenlijk alleen dictaturen kennen, ...) in hun
gelederen van de afgelopen eeuw ......
> Selfs vir Sadam?
Nee, eigenlijk niet, laat die aardige man maar verder gaan met gasjes
uittesten (Halabja) op zijn eigen burgers en zo gemiddeld eens in de 10 jaar
een buurland (Iran, Koeweit) binnenvallen.
Groeten,
Arthur
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71071 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71060] |
Sa, 28 Desember 2002 16:56 |
Waaierstertmuis
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"Arthur" wrote:
> "Katryn" schreef...
>> Arthur, dink jy dis okay vir Bush om aan die res van die wereld te wil
>> voorskryf wat en hoe hulle moet leef en regeer?
>
> Nee, Katryn, ik vind Bush ook geen aardige man. Ik ageer vooral tegen die
> anti-Amerikaanse sentimenten hier.
Arthur, dankie vir jou antwoord. Ek het net 'n reuse probleem, en dit
is dat my kop te plat is, en ek dus sukkel om jou taal te verstaan.
Ek het rerig hard probeer om te verstaan wat jy gesê het, maar ek is
bevrees dat ek heel waarskynlik die meeste of grootste dele
misverstaan. Dit begin sommer by jou gebruik van "aardige". Ek weet
nie of dit goed of sleg is nie. :-)
"earthy" is vir my "aards", en dis gewoonlik "goed", in die opsig dat
dit iets aandui wat eenvoudig en uninhibited, unadorned ens. is.
Maar dalk suggereer jy iets meer "risqué" of "provocotive" met die
term "aardig"?
Terloops, vir die rekord - ek is *NIE* anti-amerikaans nie - was nog
nooit. Ek is wel anti-regering, en veral anti-bush.
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71073 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71055] |
Sa, 28 Desember 2002 18:37 |
Waaierstertmuis
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"Jonas" wrote:
Dierbare Jonas,
> Dit is nou maar 'n voldwonge feit dat daar altyd een "heersende" land sal
> wees - of jy of ek nou daarvan hou of nie. Dit is 'n voldwonge feit. Sou jy
> dit wil weg wens - gaan voort.
Gaan lees gerus Tariq Ali, se artikel: "The New Empire Loyalists
Former Leftists Turned US military Cheerleaders are Helping Snuff Out
Its Traditions of Dissent"
Lees die artikel by:
http://www.counterpunch.com/tariqempire1.html
Hy sê o.a :
"What unites the new empire loyalists is an underlying belief that,
despite certain flaws, the military and economic power of the US
represents the only emancipatory project and, for that reason, has to
be supported against all those who challenge its power. A few prefer
Clinton-as-Caesar rather than Bush, but recognise this as a
self-indulgence. Deep down they know the empire stands above its
leaders."
Dan gaan hy voort en sê:
"What they forget is that empires always act in their own
self-interests. The British empire cleverly exploited the anti-slavery
campaigns to colonise Africa, just as Washington uses the humanitarian
handwringing of NGOs and the bien pensants to fight its new wars
today. September 11 has been used by the American empire to re-map the
world. European continental pieties are beginning to irritate Cheney
and Rumsfeld. They laugh in Washington when they hear European
politicians talk of revitalising the UN. There are 189 member states
of the UN. In 100 of these states there is a US military presence. For
UN, read US?"
> Het jy ook 'n probleem met die VSA se rol om Noord-Korea aan bande te lê?
Ja.
http://www.counterpunch.org/
Pour voir clairement il suffit souvent d'un changement dans la
direction du regard.
-Antoine de Saint-Expèry (1900-1944)
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71079 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71073] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 02:18 |
Vusi
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Katryn - aantygings soos die van Ali is maar soos al die retoriek wat ons
nou reeds dekades hoor.
Ek is verbaas dat hy nie ontken dat die aanval op die WTC plaasgevind het
nie - as ek reg kan onthou het die aanval Bush in sy stryd gedwing. Of, hoe
sou jy voorstel moes die VSA daarop gereageer het?
My punt is dat Bush met die minimum geweld en die maksimum sielkundige druk
Sadam reeds gedwing het om toegewings te maak wat andersins deur geweld
vermag moes word. Gee die man krediet.
Mbt Nood Korea - wat sou jy voorstel? Dat ons wag vir die EU om 'n militêre
mag saam te stel om die probleem die hoof te bied? (Dan sal ek en jy een of
ander Sjinese dialek moet aanleer - die van ons nuwe heersers?)
"Katryn" skryf in boodskap news:umor0vkvm5evjdiv6k5te2ba25msis5k76@4ax.com...
> "Jonas" wrote:
>
> Dierbare Jonas,
>
>> Dit is nou maar 'n voldwonge feit dat daar altyd een "heersende" land sal
>> wees - of jy of ek nou daarvan hou of nie. Dit is 'n voldwonge feit. Sou jy
>> dit wil weg wens - gaan voort.
>
> Gaan lees gerus Tariq Ali, se artikel: "The New Empire Loyalists
> Former Leftists Turned US military Cheerleaders are Helping Snuff Out
> Its Traditions of Dissent"
> Lees die artikel by:
> http://www.counterpunch.com/tariqempire1.html
>
> Hy sê o.a :
> "What unites the new empire loyalists is an underlying belief that,
> despite certain flaws, the military and economic power of the US
> represents the only emancipatory project and, for that reason, has to
> be supported against all those who challenge its power. A few prefer
> Clinton-as-Caesar rather than Bush, but recognise this as a
> self-indulgence. Deep down they know the empire stands above its
> leaders."
>
> Dan gaan hy voort en sê:
> "What they forget is that empires always act in their own
> self-interests. The British empire cleverly exploited the anti-slavery
> campaigns to colonise Africa, just as Washington uses the humanitarian
> handwringing of NGOs and the bien pensants to fight its new wars
> today. September 11 has been used by the American empire to re-map the
> world. European continental pieties are beginning to irritate Cheney
> and Rumsfeld. They laugh in Washington when they hear European
> politicians talk of revitalising the UN. There are 189 member states
> of the UN. In 100 of these states there is a US military presence. For
> UN, read US?"
>
>> Het jy ook 'n probleem met die VSA se rol om Noord-Korea aan bande te lê?
>
> Ja.
>
> http://www.counterpunch.org/
>
> Pour voir clairement il suffit souvent d'un changement dans la
> direction du regard.
> -Antoine de Saint-Expèry (1900-1944)
>
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71080 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71045] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 05:43 |
Tobie
Boodskappe: 581
Geregistreer: September 2000
Karma: 0
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families is of families are ........???????
--
"Katryn"
>
> Om jou hero te kwoteer: "Families is where our nation finds hope,
> where wings take dream"
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71092 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71080] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 15:45 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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"Tobie" wrote:
> families is of families are ........???????
Jy sal vir Bush moet vra. Wat ek aangehaal het was een van die vele
Bushisms.
As mens iemand aanhaal, verander jy NIKS.
Hy het ook gesê: "You have seen the enemy, and they is me."
Dis die wyse man wat ook daardie bekende vraag gevra het in Concord,
New Hampshire, Jan 29, 2000:
" Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
Hy was en is baie bekommerd oor die rol wat die Internet speel, en ons
wyse leier het herhaardelik al vir ons gesê:
"PUT the 'OFF' button ON."
(Dit was o.a sy wyse raad aan ouers wat bekommerd is oor die rol van
TV)
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71095 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71079] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 15:50 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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"Jonas" wrote:
> Mbt Nood Korea - wat sou jy voorstel? Dat ons wag vir die EU om 'n militêre
> mag saam te stel om die probleem die hoof te bied?
Dat ons so vinnig as moontlik weer moet begin met oil trade?
Bush het juis nou die dag uitgevind dat alle "imports" kom van die
buiteland af. Hy was baie beindruk, hoor - baie beindruk!
"Well, I think that if you say you're going to do something and then
don't do it, that's trustworthiness."
George W. Bush, acting president of the USA
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71098 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71095] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 16:10 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Katryn wrote:
> Bush het juis nou die dag uitgevind dat alle "imports" kom van die
> buiteland af. Hy was baie beindruk, hoor - baie beindruk!
George Bush en sy moroniteite kan nog verskoon
word. Maar as Condoleeza Rice dink Japan is die
VSA se grootste handelsvennoot, dan is daar iets
rotten in the state of Denmark.
Ek sien in 'n opname dat Hilary Clinton die
vrou is wat die Amerikaners die meeste bewonder.
'n Bewys wat die gemiddelde Amerikaner die hoogste
op prys stel: breinkrag en beginsels. Daar is glo
ook opnames wat sê dat Hilary Clinton die beste
kans van die Demokrate is om Bush in 2004 te klop.
Gloudina
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71102 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71098] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 18:37 |
Joe[1]
Boodskappe: 36
Geregistreer: Desember 2002
Karma: 0
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Volle Lid |
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Waar kry jy die "feite" vandaan? Watter opnames was dit. Gee bietjie meer
info...?
skryf in boodskap news:3E0F1F80.8070609@rogers.com...
>
> Katryn wrote:
>
>
>> Bush het juis nou die dag uitgevind dat alle "imports" kom van die
>> buiteland af. Hy was baie beindruk, hoor - baie beindruk!
>
> George Bush en sy moroniteite kan nog verskoon
> word. Maar as Condoleeza Rice dink Japan is die
> VSA se grootste handelsvennoot, dan is daar iets
> rotten in the state of Denmark.
> Ek sien in 'n opname dat Hilary Clinton die
> vrou is wat die Amerikaners die meeste bewonder.
> 'n Bewys wat die gemiddelde Amerikaner die hoogste
> op prys stel: breinkrag en beginsels. Daar is glo
> ook opnames wat sê dat Hilary Clinton die beste
> kans van die Demokrate is om Bush in 2004 te klop.
>
> Gloudina
>
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71103 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71092] |
So, 29 Desember 2002 18:38 |
Tobie
Boodskappe: 581
Geregistreer: September 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Katryn"
> "PUT the 'OFF' button ON."
---
en ek dink dit is goed gesê, en ek stem 100% met hom saam.
Ek hou sommer skielik van hom :-)
Julle moet net onthou the buck stops by his desk, maar hy het BAIE
mense wie hy moet raadpleeg en wie vir hom raad gee, nie waar nie?
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71109 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71098] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 03:24 |
Vusi
Boodskappe: 2212
Geregistreer: Februarie 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Hillary Clinton se betrokkenheid by verdagte sakebelange in die verlede sal
haar waarskynlik pootjie. Maar aan dat daar nie 'n gebrek aan ambisie is nie
twyfe ek nie. Ek dink die Amerikaners verdien 'n vrouepresident. (Bush se
eggenote beindruk my egter ietwat meer as Hillary - Ms Bush is baie meer
vroulik - sy het tenminste nie sulke boabob-bene nie.)
My indruk is dat Amerikaners redelik gatvol is vir die Clintons - beide met
baie verdagte buite-huweliks "bedrywighede.
Oor jou sogenaamde "opname" sal ek graag die feitelike besonderhede wil
sien - hierdie "opname" is waarskynlik weer die werk van 'n slapgat
joernalis wat agter sy sleutelbord gesit het en 'n storie uit sy duim gesuie
het. Jammer - opnames werk nie hier nie....
Dit is snert.
skryf in boodskap news:3E0F1F80.8070609@rogers.com...
>
> Katryn wrote:
>
>
>> Bush het juis nou die dag uitgevind dat alle "imports" kom van die
>> buiteland af. Hy was baie beindruk, hoor - baie beindruk!
>
> George Bush en sy moroniteite kan nog verskoon
> word. Maar as Condoleeza Rice dink Japan is die
> VSA se grootste handelsvennoot, dan is daar iets
> rotten in the state of Denmark.
> Ek sien in 'n opname dat Hilary Clinton die
> vrou is wat die Amerikaners die meeste bewonder.
> 'n Bewys wat die gemiddelde Amerikaner die hoogste
> op prys stel: breinkrag en beginsels. Daar is glo
> ook opnames wat sê dat Hilary Clinton die beste
> kans van die Demokrate is om Bush in 2004 te klop.
>
> Gloudina
>
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71111 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71103] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 03:35 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Tobie" wrote:
Re: Dubya bin George:
> Ek hou sommer skielik van hom :-)
Dis okay - jy mag maar. Ek sal dit nie teen jou hou nie. :-)
Soos jou hero, Dubya, dan ook gesê het:
"If it feels good, do it. And if you've got a problem, blame somebody
else."
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71113 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71098] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 03:48 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"@rogers.com" wrote:
>
> George Bush en sy moroniteite kan nog verskoon
> word. Maar as Condoleeza Rice dink Japan is die
> VSA se grootste handelsvennoot, dan is daar iets
> rotten in the state of Denmark.
Elke keer nog wat hier 'n opname gedoen was, juis hieroor, het die
meeste Amerikaners tot dieselfde gevolgtrekking gekom. Maar ons WEET
dat Ontario (nevermaaind die res van Kanada) meer handel dryf met ons
as die Japanese - dis maar net een van daai dinge wat mens leer om te
aanvaar. Net soos ons maar net gesmaail het toe Chretien vir Bush 'n
moron genoem het.
> Ek sien in 'n opname dat Hilary Clinton die
> vrou is wat die Amerikaners die meeste bewonder.
Ja, en dat Laura Bush tweede is. Dit het my ook nogal verbaas. Oprah
in derde plek.
Hulle het ook in (dalk dieselfde opname) gespekuleer dat Hilary en
Condie teen mekaar moet staan vir die 2008 eleksie.
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71114 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71109] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 03:51 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Jonas" wrote:
> Oor jou sogenaamde "opname" sal ek graag die feitelike besonderhede wil
> sien - hierdie "opname" is waarskynlik weer die werk van 'n slapgat
> joernalis wat agter sy sleutelbord gesit het en 'n storie uit sy duim gesuie
> het. Jammer - opnames werk nie hier nie....
>
> Dit is snert.
Goeie genugtig, Jonas. Waar val jy uit jong? Enigeen van ons wat
hier in Amerika (en Kanada) woon, weet waarvan sy gepraat het!
Jy maak jou naam erg krater alweer....
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71118 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71113] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 04:45 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Katryn wrote:
Net soos ons maar net gesmaail het toe Chretien vir Bush 'n
> moron genoem het.
Jy het natuurlik die kat aan die stert
beet. Die persoon wat Bush 'n moron
genoem het, was die persoon wat Chretien
se skedule behartig. En sy het haar pos
bedank, alhoewel Chretien dit nie wou
hê nie. In alle geval, sy het dit nie in
die openbaar gesê nie. Sy het dit in 'n
private gesprek gesê en 'n stupid joernalis
het dit gehoor en dit gerapporteer. Selfs
op die Amerikaanse politieke forums het
hulle sulke joernalistieke metodes veroordeel.
Dit is egter vir my heel snaaks dat die
Amerikaners nou skielik so anti-Kanadees
geword het. Is dit omdat hulle weet dat die
Kanadese nie al die snert wat George Bush
opdis, vir soetkoek gaan opeet nie. Ons het
nou 'n minister of foreign affairs ( openly
gay) wat vir geen duiwel stuit nie.
Gloudina
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71119 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71118] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 05:07 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"@rogers.com" wrote:
> Jy het natuurlik die kat aan die stert
> beet. Die persoon wat Bush 'n moron
> genoem het, was die persoon wat Chretien
> se skedule behartig.
Jawellnofine.
10/10 vir daardie persoon, dan.
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71126 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71114] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 07:38 |
Vusi
Boodskappe: 2212
Geregistreer: Februarie 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Goeie genugtig Katryn - soos jy sien woon ek in vertraagde Suid-Afrika. Daar
is bepaald dinge wat hier gebeur wat jy ook seker niks van weet nie. Maar
wanneer jy verwys (jou geliefde Antie) na "opnames" - dan verwag ek 'n
bietjie meer substansies as bloot net dit.
Maar my kraterimage ten spyt Katryn weet ek dat opnames wat nie beskryf word
nie - soos die omvang daarvan, kredietswaarigheidspeiling ens. - beteken
steeds boggerol.
So jammer vir jou - ek hou by my standpunt - maar kan met feitelikhede
oortuig word. Opnames werk nie so lekker met my nie ...
"Katryn" skryf in boodskap news:ejgv0vgl9k34fgr399mqishvb5a1n6of3j@4ax.com...
> "Jonas" wrote:
>
>> Oor jou sogenaamde "opname" sal ek graag die feitelike besonderhede wil
>> sien - hierdie "opname" is waarskynlik weer die werk van 'n slapgat
>> joernalis wat agter sy sleutelbord gesit het en 'n storie uit sy duim gesuie
>> het. Jammer - opnames werk nie hier nie....
>>
>> Dit is snert.
>
> Goeie genugtig, Jonas. Waar val jy uit jong? Enigeen van ons wat
> hier in Amerika (en Kanada) woon, weet waarvan sy gepraat het!
> Jy maak jou naam erg krater alweer....
>
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| Kraterige kraters [boodskap #71139 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71126] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 15:18 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Jonas" wrote:
> Goeie genugtig Katryn - soos jy sien woon ek in vertraagde Suid-Afrika. Daar
> is bepaald dinge wat hier gebeur wat jy ook seker niks van weet nie.
Ja, bepaald! Definitief - onvoorwaardelik so.
> Maar
> wanneer jy verwys (jou geliefde Antie)
Dis onder die belt - baie onder die belt. Sies!
> na "opnames" - dan verwag ek 'n
> bietjie meer substansies as bloot net dit.
Dis beskikbaar op die Internet. Ek het gaan kyk. Dis daar - alles is
daar.
> Maar my kraterimage ten spyt Katryn
Ja, skies daaroor. Ekself is maar gewoonlik 'n krater, seker daarom
dat ek dit so maklik erken in ander.
> weet ek dat opnames wat nie beskryf word
> nie - soos die omvang daarvan, kredietswaarigheidspeiling ens. - beteken
> steeds boggerol.
Maar dit was mos nie 'n gelaaide stelling wat een of ander diep
betekenis moes hê nie. Dit was eerder iets soos "die son skyn alweer
vandag en dis warm vir hierdie tyd van die jaar.".
Daar word gedurig en gereeld opnames hier (dis nou in die good ol' US
of A), gedoen - oor alles en nog wat. Dis so deel van ons samelewing
soos poutine vir die canucks, of pap en boerewors vir julle? :-)
> So jammer vir jou - ek hou by my standpunt - maar kan met feitelikhede
> oortuig word. Opnames werk nie so lekker met my nie ...
Jy sal nie 'n feit kan erken as dit jou in die gesig staar nie, Jonas.
:-))
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| Re: Kraterige kraters [boodskap #71145 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71139] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 17:38 |
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Oorspronklik gepos deur: @rogers.com
Katryn wrote:
Dis so deel van ons samelewing
> soos poutine vir die canucks, of pap en boerewors vir julle? :-)
Met Canucks word gewoonlik alle Kanadese
verstaan, miskien met die frenchies en die
frogs ingeslote, miskien nie. Ek dink nie
dat die oorweldigende meerderheid van
Engelssprekende Kanadese poutine eet nie.
Ek sit nie my mond daaraan nie. Maar dan
is pap en boerwors ook nie verteenwoordigend
van die smaak van alle Afrikaners nie. Ek het
nie grootgeword met pap en boerwors nie.
Gloudina
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71152 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71111] |
Ma, 30 Desember 2002 18:42 |
Tobie
Boodskappe: 581
Geregistreer: September 2000
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Was by Drom van middag. Hy stuur groete. Die rookseine gekry. Die
Langeberge sal nog daar wees. gelukkig het die "Sleeping Beauty" se
hare nie uitgebrand nie.
---
"Katryn"
---knip---
Soos jou hero, Dubya, dan ook gesê het:
> "If it feels good, do it. And if you've got a problem, blame somebody
> else."
---knip---
Ek het net een hero, jy weet wie Hy is. :-)
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| Re: Kraterige kraters [boodskap #71166 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71145] |
Di, 31 Desember 2002 00:57 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"@rogers.com" wrote:
>
> Katryn wrote:
>
> Dis so deel van ons samelewing
>> soos poutine vir die canucks, of pap en boerewors vir julle? :-)
>
> Met Canucks word gewoonlik alle Kanadese
> verstaan, miskien met die frenchies en die
> frogs ingeslote, miskien nie. Ek dink nie
> dat die oorweldigende meerderheid van
> Engelssprekende Kanadese poutine eet nie.
> Ek sit nie my mond daaraan nie. Maar dan
> is pap en boerwors ook nie verteenwoordigend
> van die smaak van alle Afrikaners nie. Ek het
> nie grootgeword met pap en boerwors nie.
Ja, dis min of meer soos ek dit bedoel het.
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| Re: Bush wen die oorlog .... [boodskap #71167 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71152] |
Di, 31 Desember 2002 01:05 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Tobie" wrote:
> Was by Drom van middag. Hy stuur groete. Die rookseine gekry. Die
> Langeberge sal nog daar wees. gelukkig het die "Sleeping Beauty" se
> hare nie uitgebrand nie.
Ai, dis darem 'n mooi deel van die wereld daar by julle.
Ek sal versigtiger wees volgende keer! :-))
> Ek het net een hero, jy weet wie Hy is. :-)
Ja, ek weet...:-)
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| Re: Kraterige kraters [boodskap #71170 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71139] |
Di, 31 Desember 2002 02:59 |
Vusi
Boodskappe: 2212
Geregistreer: Februarie 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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Katryn. Jammer om jou teleur te stel - maar ek kan 'n feit herken as ek een
sien - al wat jy nou moet doen is om die feit(e) te voorsien.
Terwyl ons van kraters praat - net dit. My stelling was dat Bush 'n
sielkundigeoorlog wen - sonder om 'n skoot te skiet.
Ek kan vir jou 200 aanhalings gee van van mense wat bekend is vir hulle
kennis van die strategie - soos Clausewitz ens. Maar ek bepaal my tot die
ooglopende.
Jammer - jy was die krater.
Volgende onderwerp asseblief ....
"Katryn" skryf in boodskap news:j6o01vgcnhaco2qirpl3sp8duvq3p72olb@4ax.com...
> "Jonas" wrote:
>
>> Goeie genugtig Katryn - soos jy sien woon ek in vertraagde Suid-Afrika. Daar
>> is bepaald dinge wat hier gebeur wat jy ook seker niks van weet nie.
>
> Ja, bepaald! Definitief - onvoorwaardelik so.
>
>> Maar
>> wanneer jy verwys (jou geliefde Antie)
>
> Dis onder die belt - baie onder die belt. Sies!
>
>> na "opnames" - dan verwag ek 'n
>> bietjie meer substansies as bloot net dit.
>
> Dis beskikbaar op die Internet. Ek het gaan kyk. Dis daar - alles is
> daar.
>
>> Maar my kraterimage ten spyt Katryn
>
> Ja, skies daaroor. Ekself is maar gewoonlik 'n krater, seker daarom
> dat ek dit so maklik erken in ander.
>
>> weet ek dat opnames wat nie beskryf word
>> nie - soos die omvang daarvan, kredietswaarigheidspeiling ens. - beteken
>> steeds boggerol.
>
> Maar dit was mos nie 'n gelaaide stelling wat een of ander diep
> betekenis moes hê nie. Dit was eerder iets soos "die son skyn alweer
> vandag en dis warm vir hierdie tyd van die jaar.".
> Daar word gedurig en gereeld opnames hier (dis nou in die good ol' US
> of A), gedoen - oor alles en nog wat. Dis so deel van ons samelewing
> soos poutine vir die canucks, of pap en boerewors vir julle? :-)
>
>> So jammer vir jou - ek hou by my standpunt - maar kan met feitelikhede
>> oortuig word. Opnames werk nie so lekker met my nie ...
>
> Jy sal nie 'n feit kan erken as dit jou in die gesig staar nie, Jonas.
> :-))
>
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| Re: Kraterige kraters [boodskap #71171 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #71170] |
Di, 31 Desember 2002 03:50 |
Waaierstertmuis
Boodskappe: 1592
Geregistreer: Oktober 2001
Karma: 0
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Senior Lid |
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"Jonas" wrote:
> Katryn. Jammer om jou teleur te stel - maar ek kan 'n feit herken as ek een
> sien - al wat jy nou moet doen is om die feit(e) te voorsien.
FEIT(E) alreeds voorsien in vorige boodskap. Sheesh, maar jy's slow
on the uptake...
Ek is in elkgeval moeg met jou gespeel nou. Speel jy maar met Ferdi
en Ta' Hessie. Hulle het meer geduld as ek.
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