On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:41:37 +0200, "Reenen van Niekerk" wrote: [/color] > 10 000 wetenskaplikkes is almal verkeerd. Hoe kan hulle waag om te se dat hy > verkeerd is.>> Terwyl ek reken dit lyk of daar genoeg konsensus onder genoeg ernstige mense is dat die virus en die siekte regstreekse verband het, moet 'n mens seker darem net noem dat die 10 000 kan nie verkeerd wees nie (as dit is wat jy bedoel op sarkastiese/ironiese wyse) argument nie altyd so 'b goeie een is nie. 10 000 priesters het gese Galileo is verkeerd.
Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede. Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika. Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie. Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank. Ernest "Elaine" skryf in boodskap news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr > Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie
Interresante perspektief: Simon Barber in Business Day: ------------------------------------------------- Lazy journalist virus' causes herd-like motion in Durban ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MONDAY morning's US media accounts of President Thabo Mbeki's opening address to the 13th international AIDS conference in Durban were proof of the lazily thought-free pack mentality of much of the journalistic profession, especially when it comes to sensitive and complicated issues. The overriding theme was that Mbeki had not done what was required of him, which was to renounce once and for all his alleged apostasy on the relationship between HIV and AIDS. The Washington Post's front-page headline was "Hundreds walk out on Mbeki South African's speech on AIDS protested". The ensuing story was chiefly devoted to airing the views of the walkers, mostly white and foreign. The New York Times said Mbeki "dashed the hopes of thousands of participants who wanted him to state clearly that HIV causes AIDS". In these and other reports, precious little attention was paid to what Mbeki actually said. The signers of the "Durban declaration" assert that: "As with any other chronic infection, various cofactors play a role in determining the risk of (AIDS-related) disease. Persons who are malnourished, who already suffer other infections or who are older, tend to be more rapidly susceptible to the rapid development of AIDS following HIV infection. However, none of these factors weaken the scientific evidence that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS." Sandra Thurman, director of the White House office of national AIDS policy, said in a pre-Durban interview: "We see the rapid spread of AIDS disease in Africa because of cofactors malnutrition, sexually transmitted diseases, other untreated diseases, and lack of education and infrastructure." It seems therefore to be common cause among the orthodoxy that the scale of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, as compared with that in western Europe or the US, has to do with something more than the HIV virus itself. Mbeki, in his speech, said: "As I listened and heard the whole story about our country, it seemed to me that we could not blame everything on a single virus. It seemed to me also that every living African, whether in good or ill health, is prey to many enemies of health that would interact one upon the other in many ways, within one human body. "And thus I came to conclude that we have a desperate and pressing need to wage a war on all fronts to guarantee and realise the human right of all our people to good health." The difference between Mbeki and his critics is not over whether HIV is causative of AIDS that is a bizarre red herring, perhaps even a pretext for ignoring the truth but on grand strategy. The critics would like him to focus exclusively on HIV/AIDS, stemming its transmission and treating the infected. He said, yes, we must discourage dangerous behaviour, care for its victims and search for a vaccine, but as part of a holistic effort to improve public health and living standards, and reduce the poverty which happens to a breeding ground for AIDS cofactors. HIV is prevalent in Africa because it is, unlike in the US, largely transmitted via a very common activity: heterosexual sex. Now why should something that Americans routinely do with minimal risk be so deadly in Africa? The only reasonable, nonracist, answer is that most Americans are pretty healthy. Their water is clean, their diets are rich, their sewers work. They are by and large well-housed. If they contract the pox they see a doctor and get a prescription. Their immune systems are not under constant assault from tuberculosis, malaria, sexually transmitted disease, helminths and, as Mbeki put it, a host of "other illnesses with complicated Latin names". Ironically, it may be that the African AIDS crisis affords an opportunity for at least some African countries to obtain the resources they need to narrow the yawning gap in health and living standards between themselves and the industrialised north. But that will not be the case if donors insist on limiting their assistance to AIDS prevention, treatment and research. Significant sums have been and are being promised for those causes. The World Bank says it has set aside 500m to back African AIDS programmes, so long as the recipient has one. The William and Melinda Gates Foundation and drug company Merck have just promised Botswana 100m to combat AIDS. That is wonderful, in theory. In practice, though, it only means that there are large pots of money for groups that know how to write clever grant proposals, full of the right buzzwords, without any guarantee that they will use the money for any good purpose. In the same vein, the generosity of the drug companies is suspect. They will give away AIDS medicines so long as the medicines are administered properly and safely, which they cannot be until the recipient country has the proper infrastructure the clinics, doctors, patient transport systems, for starters in place. Then count on it only so long as the recipient government only uses the drugs on AIDS patients (which will lead to further exaggeration of the HIV statistics) and promises not to seek generics to treat other conditions. Listen to Mbeki, Durban delegates. The AIDS crisis in Africa must be treated holistically. The cofactors are as an important target as the HIV bug. Remember the dictum of Louis Pasteur: "the terrain is as important as the germ". Will you self-interestedly focus on the germ or will you heed Mbeki's call to help cleanse the terrain?
Hy kruip gat vir geld om ons ander skuld en goed af te betaal as jy my vra. elaine "E Bessinger" skryf in boodskap news:39703114.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van > die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede. > > Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika. > Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin > klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit > beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede > tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die > armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in > armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie. > Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank. > > Ernest > > "Elaine" wrote in message > news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za... >> Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr >> Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie >
Ek dink Mbeki is reg as hy daarop wys dat armoede sonder veel twyfel die verspreiding van VIGS bevorder. Sy toespraak in Durban het egter veel verder as dit gegaan. Hy het daarop gewys dat, volgens die Wêreldgesondheidsorganisasie, "extreme poverty" op sigself, en sonder die hulp van VIGS, die grootste oorsaak van dood is. Kom ons aanvaar albei (en dis redelik om dit te aanvaar). Maar dan moet ons ook vir onsself sê: Oor twintig jaar het die ANC armoede in SA nagejaag as metode om politieke mag te verkry. Groot dele van die land waar sy ondersteuners woon is onregeerbaar gemaak. Doelbewus, en eksplisiet. Ekonomiese bedrywighede in daardie dele is doelbewus vernietig. Terselfdertyd het hy internasionale ekonomiese oorlog teen SA aangeblaas. Desmond Tutu is dikwels gevra hoe hy sy bevordering van ekonomiese sanksies kan versoen met die lot van die armes. Hy is daarop gewys dat die juis die armes en veral die swartes is wat die ergste daaronder ly, en dat die wit "vyand" dit beswaarlik voel. Dan het hy (vanaf sy swaargelaaide tafel in Bishops Court) geantwoord dat hulle daardie offer met graagte bring. Die struggle het armoede in SA doelbewus bevorder. Dus, volgens Mbeki: AIDS is the legacy of the struggle. De Kock het dosyne vermoor - Tutu miljoene. En laat ons nie vergeet nie: Die gedienstige Hollanders met hul hoogheilige wysvingers wat die ekonomiese oorlog teen SA aangevuur het, die Gloudinas in Kanada, die sedige Dene, Swede, ens. wat so ywerig was om "justice" in SA te bevorder tot hul eie voordeel deur die ekonomie van SA te probeer knak is net so skuldig aan die dood van elke VIGS-slagoffer in SA. _Dit_ is wat Mbeki se standpunt beteken. Mbeki is nie so dom om hierdie dinge nie te weet nie. Dis hoekom hy telkens maar weer propageer dat witmense die oorsaak van armoede onder swartes is. Dis nou newspeak in sy suiwerste vorm. E Bessinger skryf in boodskap news:39703114.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > Kom ons aanvaar dat Mbeki reg is. VIGS (of AIDS soos dit in die res van > die wêreld bekend staan) word veroorsaak deur armoede. > > Dan word die volgende afgely - SA het die hoogste AIDS syfer in Afrika. > Dit beteken dat SA die armste is in Africa. Die syfer het redelik begin > klim vanaf 1997. So paar jaar na die oorname van die nuwe regime. Dit > beteken dat die nuwe regime besig is om te faal in sy doel om armoede > tussen die mense in die straat uit te wis. Of hulle versterk eintlik die > armoede. Dit beteken dat die vorige regime eintlik beter gevaar het in > armoede uitwisting. As ek Mbeki is sou ek dit wragies nie erken het nie. > Ek sou eerder my minister van finansies gevra het om te bedank. > > Ernest > > "Elaine" wrote in message > news:396fb813.0@news1.mweb.co.za... >> Ek hoor vandag terwyl ek so rustig by die werk sit en verkeer dan Mnr >> Mandela Mbeki nou heelharitg ondersteun met die VIGS kwessie >
Ferdi Greyling wrote in message ... > > Interresante perspektief: > > Simon Barber in Business Day: > Nou as die klomp joernaliste wat almal redelike :) intelligente mense behoort te wees nie eers M'Beki se stellings verstaan nie hoe dan nie te meer die gewone laag geskoolde SA burger?