Comparative Afrikaans / Dutch / Low Saxon translation
Hierdie kant van die waarheid... Here is the first stanza of Dylan Thomas's poem This Side of the Truth, followed by my translation into the Southwest Drents variant of Low Saxon (the native tongue on my mother's side of the family). Low Saxon is a collection of non-standardised dialects spoken in the Northeastern Netherlands and Northern Germany. The dialects on both sides of the border, which have traditionally formed a continuum, have been heavily influenced by the respective national standard language, and over the course of the twentieth century have witnessed a sharp decline in fluent speakers. This translation is in turn followed, for purposes of comparison, by a literal translation of the Low Saxon into Dutch, and my attempt - quite possibly flawed - at a literal translation of the Low Saxon into Afrikaans. Note that Afrikaans finds its origin in the Western Dutch (Hollandic, Zeelandic) dialects, not in the Eastern Dutch dialects which include the Low Saxon ones. Low Saxon developed independently from Dutch and (High) German, and had political clout in the days of the Hanseatic League, after which its marginalisation began. What is your impression of these comparisons? Can the Afrikaans be improved? E.g., I don't think "in de benen komen" (get up on one's feet) translates literally into Afrikaans; what would be the closest rendering? English This side of the truth, You may not see, my son, King of your blue eyes In the blinding country of youth, That all is undone, Under the unminding skies, Of innocence and guilt Before you move to make One gesture of the heart or head, Is gathered and spilt Into the winding dark Like the dust of the dead. Low Saxon (Southwest Drents) Dizze kaante van de waorheid Zuj miskien niet zien, mien zeun, Keuning van oen blauwe ogen Ien 't blinde laand van de kiender: Det alle dinger ofleupt, Al blif de hemel onbewogen, Onskuld en skuld gaot verleuren Veurdej ok mar mit ien gebaor Van heufd of harte ien de bienen koomt Wördt alles vört ehaald en, as 't stof Van de doden, ien 't dreiende duuster Egeuten op de leste aobend. Dutch Deze kant van de waarheid Zul je misschien niet zien, mijn zoon, Koning van je blauwe ogen In het blinde land van de kinderen: Dat alle dingen aflopen, Al blijft de hemel onbewogen, Onschuld en schuld gaan verloren Voordat je ook maar met één gebaar Van hoofd of hart in de benen komt Wordt alles weggehaald en, als het stof Van de doden, in het draaiende duister Gegoten op de laatste avond. Afrikaans Hierdie kant van die waarheid Sal jy miskien nie sien nie, my seun, Koning van jou bloue oë In die blinde land van die kindere: Dat al die dinge eindig, Al bly die hemel onbewoë, Onskuld en skuld gaan verlore Voordat jy net een gebaar Van kop of hart kan maak Word alles weggehaal en, as die stof Van die dode, gegiet in die draaiende Duister op die laaste aand. This message was originally posted by the author on his Facebook page.
Re: Comparative Afrikaans / Dutch / Low Saxon translation
On Jul 11, 5:27 pm, umfo...@gmail.com wrote: > Hierdie kant van die waarheid... > What is your impression of these comparisons? Can the Afrikaans be > improved? I've tried my hand at another Afrikaans version, below: > > Hierdie kant van die waarheid > Sal jy miskien nie sien nie, my seun, > Koning van jou bloue oë > In die blinde land van die kindere: > Dat al die dinge eindig, > Al bly die hemel onbewoë, > Onskuld en skuld gaan verlore > Voordat jy net een gebaar > Van kop of hart kan maak > Word alles weggehaal en, as die stof > Van die dode, gegiet in die draaiende > Duister op die laaste aand. Hier's my weergawe: ---- Hierdie kant van die waarheid mag jy dalk nie sien nie, my seun Koning van jou blou oë in die verblindende land van die jeug Dat alles ongedaan is onder die onbetrokke hemele van onskuld en en skuld Voor jy nog kan wik of maak 'n gebaar van hoof of hart Word alles weggehaal en bymekaargemaak, verstrooi in die wentelende duister soos die stof van dooies -- Nou Prajy.
> Hier's my weergawe: > ---- > > Hierdie kant van die waarheid > mag jy dalk nie sien nie, my seun > Koning van jou blou oë > in die verblindende land van die jeug > Dat alles ongedaan is > onder die onbetrokke hemele > van onskuld en en skuld > Voor jy nog kan wik of maak > 'n gebaar van hoof of hart > Word alles weggehaal en > bymekaargemaak, verstrooi > in die wentelende duister > soos die stof van dooies The more times I read your version, the better I like it. Thanks also for the implicit corrections. One thing: "This side of the truth, / You may not see, my son" you render as "Hierdie kant van die waarheid / mag jy dalk nie sien nie, my seun". I understand that "mag" here indicates possibility, rather than (a lack of) permission? I.e., "perhaps you cannot see this side of the truth", rather than "you had better not see this side of the truth". In Dutch, by contrast, "mogen" normally refers to permission. "Dat mag je niet zien" - "You aren't allowed to see that." Whereas "Maybe you can't see that" would be "Dat kun je misschien niet zien." In any case, this issue gets me thinking about whether "You may not see, my son" indicates that the son is likely not to perceive the awaiting oblivion, or perhaps that the writer thinks it best that the son is not (yet) told that all things will perish. Even though there is solace in all things perishing because evil will "die in unjudging love". Below are the two remaining stanzas of Thomas's poem, followed by my Afrikaans translation. Improvements are welcome, as is any type of commentary! Good and bad, two ways Of moving about your death By the grinding sea, King of your heart in the blind days, Blow away like breath, Go crying through you and me And the souls of all men Into the innocent Dark, and the guilty dark, and good Death, and bad death, and then In the last element Fly like the stars' blood Like the sun's tears, Like the moon's seed, rubbish And fire, the flying rant Of the sky, king of your six years. And the wicked wish, Down the beginning of plants And animals and birds, Water and Light, the earth and sky, Is cast before you move, And all your deeds and words, Each truth, each lie, Die in unjudging love. Goed en sleg, twee wyses Om dood toe oor die pad te loop Na die malende see, Koning van jou hart in die blinde dae, Waai weg soos 'n asemstoot, Gaan skreeuend deur jou en deur my En die siele van almal En kom in die onskuldige Donker, en die skuldige donker, en goede Dood, en slegte dood, en dan In die laaste element, Vlieg hulle soos sterrebloed, Soos trane van die son, Soos saadjies van die maan, afval En vuur, die vlieënde gekrys Van die hemel, koning van jou zes jaar, En die kwaaie wens, Wat kom van die eerste plante En diere en voeëls, Water en Lig, die aarde en die hemel, Is verwerp voor jy dit selfs kan sien En al jou dade en woorde, Elke waarheid, elke leuen Sterf in liefde wat nie oordeel nie. Signed, Umfol...
On Jul 12, 12:21 pm, umfo...@gmail.com wrote: >> Hier's my weergawe: >> ---- > >> Hierdie kant van die waarheid >> mag jy dalk nie sien nie, my seun >> Koning van jou blou oë >> in die verblindende land van die jeug >> Dat alles ongedaan is >> onder die onbetrokke hemele >> van onskuld en en skuld >> Voor jy nog kan wik of maak >> 'n gebaar van hoof of hart >> Word alles weggehaal en >> bymekaargemaak, verstrooi >> in die wentelende duister >> soos die stof van dooies > > The more times I read your version, the better I like it. Thanks also > for the implicit corrections. > > One thing: "This side of the truth, / You may not see, my son" you > render as "Hierdie kant van die waarheid / mag jy dalk nie sien nie, > my seun". I understand that "mag" here indicates possibility, rather > than (a lack of) permission? I.e., "perhaps you cannot see this side > of the truth", rather than "you had better not see this side of the > truth". The meaning of Afrikaans "mag" quite closely matches "may" in this case, with the two different meanings equally valid, although "dalk" would most likely also be added to distinguish better in normal conversation. > In Dutch, by contrast, "mogen" normally refers to permission. "Dat mag > je niet zien" - "You aren't allowed to see that." Whereas "Maybe you > can't see that" would be "Dat kun je misschien niet zien." In any > case, this issue gets me thinking about whether "You may not see, my > son" indicates that the son is likely not to perceive the awaiting > oblivion, or perhaps that the writer thinks it best that the son is > not (yet) told that all things will perish. Even though there is > solace in all things perishing because evil will "die in unjudging > love". > > Below are the two remaining stanzas of Thomas's poem, followed by my > Afrikaans translation. Improvements are welcome, as is any type of > commentary! > > Good and bad, two ways > Of moving about your death > By the grinding sea, > King of your heart in the blind days, > Blow away like breath, > Go crying through you and me > And the souls of all men > Into the innocent > Dark, and the guilty dark, and good > Death, and bad death, and then > In the last element > Fly like the stars' blood > > Like the sun's tears, > Like the moon's seed, rubbish > And fire, the flying rant > Of the sky, king of your six years. > And the wicked wish, > Down the beginning of plants > And animals and birds, > Water and Light, the earth and sky, > Is cast before you move, > And all your deeds and words, > Each truth, each lie, > Die in unjudging love. > > Goed en sleg, twee wyses > Om dood toe oor die pad te loop > Na die malende see, > Koning van jou hart in die blinde dae, > Waai weg soos 'n asemstoot, > Gaan skreeuend deur jou en deur my > En die siele van almal > En kom in die onskuldige > Donker, en die skuldige donker, en goede > Dood, en slegte dood, en dan > In die laaste element, > Vlieg hulle soos sterrebloed, > > Soos trane van die son, > Soos saadjies van die maan, afval > En vuur, die vlieënde gekrys > Van die hemel, koning van jou zes jaar, > En die kwaaie wens, > Wat kom van die eerste plante > En diere en voeëls, > Water en Lig, die aarde en die hemel, > Is verwerp voor jy dit selfs kan sien > En al jou dade en woorde, > Elke waarheid, elke leuen > Sterf in liefde wat nie oordeel nie. > > Signed, > Umfol... Hier gaan ons, ek het redelik vry vanaf die Engels gewerk, doelbewus sonder om na jou vertaling te kyk. -- Goed en boos, twee wëe van met die dood omgaan By die malende see Koning van jou hart in die blinde dae Waai weg soos asem Gaan wenend deur jou en my En die siele van almal In die onskuldige Duister, en die skuldige duister, en goeie dood, en slegte dood, en dan in die laaste element vlieg soos die sterre se bloed Soos die son se trane Soos die maan se saad, afval en vuur, die vlieende geskel Van die hemel, koning van jou ses jaar En die bose wens Onder die begin van plante en diere en voëls Water en Lig, die aarde en lug is gegiet voordat jy roer, en al jou dade en woorde elke waarheid, elke leuen sterf in onveroordeelende liefde -- Nouprajy
Thanks again for your version. >> Good and bad, two ways >> Of moving about your death >> By the grinding sea, >> Goed en sleg, twee wyses >> Om dood toe oor die pad te loop >> Na die malende see, > Goed en boos, twee wëe > van met die dood omgaan > By die malende see "Moving about your death", I think is more or less "Going any coiling direction you choose (walking along good paths or bad ones), but always heading ultimately towards your death." With "dood toe [...] loop", I tried to use, in a figurative way, a typical Afrikaans turn of phrase which is somewhat different in Dutch. An example: "As jy 'n migraine het, gaan jy dokter toe en hy gee vir jou 'n pyninspuiting." In Dutch: "Als je migraine hebt, ga je naar de dokter (toe) en geeft hij je een injectie tegen de pijn." "Ek gaan huis toe." "Ik ga naar huis (toe)." Cheers, Umfol...
On Jul 16, 8:54 pm, umfo...@gmail.com wrote: > Thanks again for your version. > >>> Good and bad, two ways >>> Of moving about your death >>> By the grinding sea, >>> Goed en sleg, twee wyses >>> Om dood toe oor die pad te loop >>> Na die malende see, >> Goed en boos, twee wëe >> van met die dood omgaan >> By die malende see > > "Moving about your death", I think is more or less "Going any coiling > direction you choose (walking along good paths or bad ones), but > always heading ultimately towards your death." > > With "dood toe [...] loop", I tried to use, in a figurative way, a > typical Afrikaans turn of phrase which is somewhat different in Dutch. > > An example: "As jy 'n migraine het, gaan jy dokter toe en hy gee vir > jou 'n pyninspuiting." > In Dutch: "Als je migraine hebt, ga je naar de dokter (toe) en geeft > hij je een injectie tegen de pijn." > > "Ek gaan huis toe." > "Ik ga naar huis (toe)." > Oh, I se what you mean. However, the line "Om dood toe oor die pad te loop" would rather mean "to cross the road on your way to death". How about this then: "...two ways/ of moving about your death/By the grinding sea" translated as "twee weë / om jou dood te betree/ by die malende see" --