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Afrikaans [boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Februarie 1996 00:00 na volgende boodskap
peter gordon  is tans af-lyn  peter gordon
Boodskappe: 3
Geregistreer: Februarie 1996
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Ek is 'n Amerikaanse student by Brigham Young University in Utah, V.S.A.
Ek is nou in 'n Afrikaanse klas, onderwys deur 'n Suid-Afrikaaner Jacques
DuPlessis. Erstens, U moet my snakse Afrikaans verskoon. Ek probeer
nog steeds om hierdie taal te leer. Ons moet 'n verslag skryf omtrent
die Afrikaanse taal, of die Afrikaanse mense, of albei. Ek soek
Afrikaanse mense wat Afrikaans by die huis praat, maar buite die huis
praat meestelike Engels. As enigeiemand wat hierdie brief lees in
hierdie kategorie pas, asablief antwoord hierdie vraag:

Omdat U gesin 'n dorpsgrondige (common?) taal het, help dit om U gesin
nader te bly. Wat ek probeer om te se is dit: It is becoming harder for
us in America to keep our families together, particularly to keep our
children out of trouble. I want to know if having a common language in
the family helps you to stay together. Dit is moeilik vir my om myself
in an ander taal te verduidelik, maar ek sal aanhou om te probeer.
eskien sal iemand wat hierdie brief lees my help.

Ek sien uit na 'n antwoord wan enige iemnad. Tot siens!!
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #5868 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Februarie 1996 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Michael Lester  is tans af-lyn  Michael Lester
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Geregistreer: Februarie 1996
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
mar...@sabc.co.za wrote:
> Speaking Afrikaans at home won't keep the family together.
>
> By the way: impressive bit of Afrikaans there for someone who doesn't live
> here.
>

Ek stem saam met Hendrik, maar ek is nie afrikaans sprekende. Miskien kan jy met
Sorrel Jakins wat ook by Brigham Young Universitiet studie praat.
Ek het sy naam in die soc.culture.south-africa groep gesien.

ick
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #5870 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Februarie 1996 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
PosNuus Gateway[2]  is tans af-lyn  PosNuus Gateway[2]
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Junior Lid
mar...@sabc.co.za schreef:

> In article , gord...@cougarnet.byu.edu says...
>>
> It is becoming harder for
>> us in America to keep our families together, particularly to keep our
>> children out of trouble. I want to know if having a common language in
>> the family helps you to stay together. Dit is moeilik vir my om myself
>> in an ander taal te verduidelik, maar ek sal aanhou om te probeer.
>> Meskien sal iemand wat hierdie brief lees my help.
>>
>> Ek sien uit na 'n antwoord wan enige iemnad. Tot siens!!
>>

> I'll write this in English to make it easier: a few million people here
> (of all races) speak Afrikaans: at home, on the streets and in the
> workplace. There is even a vernacular Afrikaans called "tsotsitaal" or a
> kind of gangster-language. Speaking Afrikaans at home won't keep the family
> together.

> By the way: impressive bit of Afrikaans there for someone who doesn't live
> here.

Ek dink dis 'n grotere aanmoediging vir Gordon as die antwoord op sy
vrage in (eenvoudige) Afrikaans is. Miskien vergis ek my?

Robert.

--

Robert se Afrikaanse bladsy: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wagenaar
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #5876 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Vr, 01 Maart 1996 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
M.Davies  is tans af-lyn  M.Davies
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Junior Lid
Eerstens laat ek jou verwelkom by ons vreemde internet-boere-gemeenskap.


Van jou perspektief vind ek dat 'n taal nie 'n belangrikke role in die
loop van gesinslewe speel nie. Van my ervaring kan ek sê dat ek gesinne
ken wat deur tale verdeel word maar tog tamaie naer by elkaar is.

Wat kan gebeur is dat 'ie ou mense een taal praat en die mense wat jonk
is Engels.

As jy meer vrae het dan vra maar!

Groetjies!
.Davies
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #5893 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 04 Maart 1996 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Leendert van Oostrum[2]  is tans af-lyn  Leendert van Oostrum[2]
Boodskappe: 264
Geregistreer: Februarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
In article mar...@sabc.co.za writes:

> In article , gord...@cougarnet.byu.edu says...
>>
> It is becoming harder for
>> us in America to keep our families together, particularly to keep our
>> children out of trouble. I want to know if having a common language in
>> the family helps you to stay together. Dit is moeilik vir my om myself
>> in an ander taal te verduidelik, maar ek sal aanhou om te probeer.
>> Meskien sal iemand wat hierdie brief lees my help.
>>
>> Ek sien uit na 'n antwoord wan enige iemnad. Tot siens!!
>>

> I'll write this in English to make it easier: a few million people here
> (of all races) speak Afrikaans: at home, on the streets and in the
> workplace. There is even a vernacular Afrikaans called "tsotsitaal" or a
> kind of gangster-language. Speaking Afrikaans at home won't keep the family
> together.

In fact, the divorce rate among Afrikaners is somewhere near the highest in
the world.

Regards, Leendert
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #5899 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 11 Maart 1996 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Elmar Thomas  is tans af-lyn  Elmar Thomas
Boodskappe: 13
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
In article ,
wrote:
> Hi
> I had to wright, not only to some one would is learning africaans.
> but is going to BYU.
> I am a South African by birth. I am English, but I spent a year in an
> Africaans bording School.
>
> I would be happy to help you!
>
> Ben

Ja nee. Dit lyk vir my dat die Engels wat deesdae in Afrikaans-medium
skole aangeleer word ook nie meer heeltemaal op die hoogte is nie...

Tom
--
=======================================================
E. Tom Thomas Awumbiwa
Anthropology, UC Berkeley sigodinisinye...
=======================================================
Re: afrikaans [boodskap #8927 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Sa, 29 Maart 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Ath  is tans af-lyn  Ath
Boodskappe: 12
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Junior Lid
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:05:26 -0700, cory Harmon
wrote:

> Hallo, My naam is Cory harmon. Ek studeer Afrikaans by Brigham YOung
> University in Provo, Utah. Ek het Afrikaans vir twee jaar gestudeer.
> Ek moet 'n term paper omtrent die Afrikaans taal skryf. If you would be
> willing to answer my questions please respond. Dankie, Cory Harmon

Sure, ask away! ; )
I did not know they taught Afrikaans there. 'n Aangename verassing..

-Ath

(There is not a shred of evidence that life is worth taken seriously.)
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9400 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 19 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
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Junior Lid
Arthur Hagen wrote:
>
> bleah schreef in artikel
>> I beg to differ. Afrikaans is a former pidgin and a current creole
>> language, and it is not something you would use to make an
> impression.
>> You are more likely to be met with ridicule and revulsion.
>> Have you ever seen the reaction of Dutch/Flemish/other speakers to
>> Afrikaans?? Stick with English, my friend, or learn some other real
>> European languages.
>>
> I am a Dutch speaker and I can understand Afrikaans very well in its
> written form. I can understand your feelings when hearing Afrikaans; I
> had the same sentiments with German, but that did not keep me from
> learning the language. It is a pitty that many -if not most- English
> speakers are too lazy to learn other languages.

I studied German and French at school too, but Afrikaans was
the only language that was forced on me. This coupled with the
constant barrage of Afrikaner biased history and culture
rammed down my throat through my school years has resulted
in my current poor attitude towards Afrikaans. (For which I
offer no apologies.)

I would much rather have learnt a REAL African language, and
I resent the fact that I was never given the chance to do so at
school. I was, of course, given 12 years of the neo-nazi
language, Afrikaans.

When I had my passport renewed, the words "sien bladsy vyf"
were stamped into it. Give me a freaking break, how many people
are going to understand that?!
"This passport has expired!!"
"No, it hasn't, see it says here 'see page 5'"
"no, I don't see that"

Now I am happy... at last, Afrikaans seems to be disappearing from
official documents. And about time too!!
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9413 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 20 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
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Junior Lid
Doos babbled incoherently:
> >>
>
> How do you define an "international language"?
>
> What sort of language in not international?

Any language that is spoken in one country only,
i.e., one nation. Duh. (Do you know what
"international" means??)

And don't tell me about the handful of people who
speak Afrikaans in countries outside RSA, because that
would be a very lame comeback.

Of course, with a name like "Koos", I would expect
you to fight back for your... er... language.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9414 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 20 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Heidi Rubins  is tans af-lyn  Heidi Rubins
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Junior Lid
>>
>> BTW "Die Stem" still forms part of the national anthem, would you refuse to
>> sing it if you were here today?????
>
> Yes, I certainly would refuse! "Die Stem" portions should be removed
> immediately, as should any other cancer. I have no doubt that eventually
> this will happen. Just thinking of "die stem" makes my lunch lurch
> upwards and forwards.
>

For those of us who do not speak Afrikaans, would someone please translate
what "die stem" means?

many thanks
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9415 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 20 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Alwyn Nel[2]  is tans af-lyn  Alwyn Nel[2]
Boodskappe: 24
Geregistreer: April 1997
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Junior Lid
In article ,
bl...@tonys.ecology.umn.edu says...
>

> I studied German and French at school too, but Afrikaans was
> the only language that was forced on me. This coupled with the
> constant barrage of Afrikaner biased history and culture
> rammed down my throat through my school years has resulted
> in my current poor attitude towards Afrikaans. (For which I
> offer no apologies.)
>
> I would much rather have learnt a REAL African language, and
> I resent the fact that I was never given the chance to do so at
> school. I was, of course, given 12 years of the neo-nazi
> language, Afrikaans.
>
> When I had my passport renewed, the words "sien bladsy vyf"
> were stamped into it. Give me a freaking break, how many people
> are going to understand that?!
> "This passport has expired!!"
> "No, it hasn't, see it says here 'see page 5'"
> "no, I don't see that"
>
> Now I am happy... at last, Afrikaans seems to be disappearing from
> official documents. And about time too!!

Ek wonder nou net, bleah, wat jy dan op hierdie NG soek as die taal jou
so walg?

Gooi ons nou hier ons pêrels voor die voete van die varke?
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9427 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
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Junior Lid
Hjalmar babbled
> bl...@tonys.ecology.umn.edu says...
>
>> Cranko wrote:
>>>
>>> . . .'D' was probably the best mark you got.
>>
>> No.... 4 A's, and 1 B (the B was for French). I refused to
>> speak Afrikaans during my entire life in South Africa.... just
>> as I refused to sing "die stem". I happen to think Afrikaans
>> is a disgusting language, and I choose never to speak it.
>
>> That is my choice and my opinion, and it is an opinion shared
>> by many people.
>
> Opinions are like assholes. . . everyone has one.
>
>> French is an international language, so it does make
>> sense for a "passport", wouldn't you agree?
>
> French is a dying, parochial waste of time. It may have been
> an "international" language in the nineteenth century, but these
> days fewer and fewer people are bothering with it. In Canada we
> even have laws and gobs of tax money to keep the corpse of the
> Quebec-French dialect looking alive [barely].

hahahahahah! This is so funny! You are in Canada and have a bad
attitude about French...... I wonder why... Maybe, because you
were forced to learn it?!? Hahahahah, you bloody hypocrite.

> You would have been far better off learning Spanish, Mandarin or
> even Cantonese. The Afrikaans "g" would have been a great help
> in Spanish. It's not nearly as gutteral as the true Dutch "g".
> Now there's a language that sounds like dry gravel in a concrete
> mixer. Ugggghhh.

Well, yes, spanish is a much better language to know, here in the
America's. However, the FACT is that French is taught as a second
language all over the world, and many people understand it. It is
also spoken/understood in many parts of Africa, and I happen
to like French.

You should watch the Afrikaans TV news.... there you will see
bits of spittle on the camera, and you will understand the
true Afrikaans "g". I agree with your description of Dutch,
but i would extend it to Afrikaans. However, Afrikaans is
a joke of a language. Have a look at the rich past tense
structure... (And English is nothing compared to other
languages, of course)

English Afrikaans

I went ek het gegaan
I have gone ek het gegaan
I had gone ek het gegaan
I would have gone ek het gegaan
I would have been going ek het gegaan
I had been going ek het gegaan

etc...

>
> Nevertless, I shall never call any language, not even Dutch,
> "disgusting". There is beauty in everything. In fact, I find
> that I am poorer for ALL the languages that I do not speak.

Except Francais, n'est-ce pas? Hahahahaha!!
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9428 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
devil...  is tans af-lyn  devil...
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Junior Lid
bleah wrote:

The Afrikaans language can in essence be considered as creolised
Dutch. Over many centuries nonwhite slaves at the Cape developed this
language through contact with their white masters.Therefore, for a
very long time whites, including the afrikaners looked down upon it
as a language not worthy of official status, only fit to be spoken in
the kitchen with the slaves.When the English took over in the
Cape,their arrogant , racistlike attitude towards the afrikaners
(e.g. under Lord Somerset) precipitated a sense of cultural
identity. Dutch anglophobes such as Van der Lingen , and Pannevis,
then saw it fit to transform the afrikaans language into a rallying
point for the nascent afrikaner culture against the english
colonialist.Thus the afrikaans language, which was first written by
malays at the cape in arabic script was hijacked by the afrikaner
nationalists as a reaction to the english occupier.As the afrikaners
strengthened their postition in the political landscape they too
wanted to impose their language on others, as the english had done
with them.But for all their wrongs they never tried to stifle the
black languages as did the english or french in their colonies.In SA
the speaking and writing of black languages was encouraged as part of
the divide and conquer strategy of apartheid.However, if you ask a
litrerate black person from e.g. Congo, Senegal whether he can write
his native language, or read it, most often the answer is no. It is
certain that apartheid gave afrikaans a very negative image, also
amongst its original speakers, the Cape Coloureds and Malays. Now, in
the New SA, the language is once again reclaimed by its nonwhite
speakers. There is also renewed academic interest in countries as far
afield as Russia and Hungary. Radio Moscow even broadcasts a half an
hour per day in afrikaans, if I am not mistaken. After Xhosa, and
Zulu, it remains the language understood by most people in South
Africa.

bleah, do us a favour and get your facts right before making such a
terrible fool of yourself.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9429 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Leendert van Oostrum  is tans af-lyn  Leendert van Oostrum
Boodskappe: 1892
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Karma: 0
Senior Lid
bleah wrote in article
...
> p...@neosoft.com wrote:
>>
>> I agree that Afrikaans may be receiving a bad rap because of it's association
>> with a certain historical political process. Although I am not a linguist,
>> Afrikaans is not all "unpleasant" to the ear, IMHO. Consider for example
>> certain Arabic languages or for example Vietnamese - these languages are
>> quite harsh and terse. Afrikaans also seems to be have a content of humour or
>> an expression of humour, using unique terms or words.
>
> Most people would disagree with you.
>
> I propose that the only people who hear good things about Afrikaans
> are Afrikaners. Afterall, who is going to say that your language sucks
> to
> your face?

Quite. No-one fit for polite society would.

>
> And please, let us not forget the Soweto uprising of 1976, which started
> the cycle of "unrest" which eventually led to the end of the racist
> regime and the triumph of democracy for the masses. Do you remember
> what started the '76 protests? Yes, I think a certain disgusting
> language
> being forced on unwilling people had a role in it.... do you
> remember which language it was?

Anyone of at least ten. The policy was that half of the subjects _not
taught in the medium of the mother tongue_ were to be taugh in English, and
the other half in Afrikaans. I.e. by learning through the medium of the
mother tongue, it was possible to avoid learning by medium of Afrikaans as
well as English. It may be significant that the present government, at
least in its policy documents, encourages learning through the medium of
the mother tongue (as did the previous one).

>
> Vietnamese is one of the most beautiful languages I know... Arabic is
> too gutteral for me too. As is Afrikaans, Dutch and Hebrew...

Note the use of "is" instead of "are" in the last sentence. It seems so
common among English speaking South Africans that I have come to suspect
that it may be a case of SA English having been influenced by Afrikaans.
Does anyone know of any research on the phenomenon?

Kind regards, Leendert
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9430 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Pieter Immelman  is tans af-lyn  Pieter Immelman
Boodskappe: 115
Geregistreer: Maart 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
Thus the afrikaans language, which was first written by malays at the cape in
arabic script was hijacked by the afrikaner>nationalists as a reaction to the
english occupier.As the afrikaners>strengthened their postition in the
political landscape they too>wanted to impose their language on others, as the
english had done>with them.But for all their wrongs they never tried to
stifle the>black languages as did the english or french in their colonies.In SA
> the speaking and writing of black languages was encouraged as part of
> the divide and conquer strategy of apartheid. It is certain that apartheid
gave afrikaans a very negative image, also amongst its original speakers, the
Cape Coloureds and Malays. Now, in the New SA, the language is once again
reclaimed by its nonwhite speakers. There is also renewed academic interest in
countries as far afield as Russia and Hungary. Radio Moscow even broadcasts a
half an hour per day in afrikaans, if I am not mistaken. After Xhosa, and
Zulu, it remains the language understood by most people in South Africa.

Yes, languages unfortunately associate themselves with political alliances
(and quite often along ethnic lines). What about the French Hugenots and
their efforts to keep french alive in the Cape Colony?

Pablo Lobster
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9431 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
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Junior Lid
Koos Klokkies wrote:
>
> In article ,
> bleah wrote:
>
>> To those who do not know Afrikaans: pronounce all "g" letters
>> as though you were trying to dislodge a large green slimy
>> object from the back of your throat. Now say: "Afrikaans
>> is 'n pragtige taal soos sagte musiek", which means something
>> like "Afrikaans is a beautiful language like soft music".
>> Hahahahaha! Don't stand next to an Afrikaner when they say
>> this sentence, you are going to get wet!! I have nothing
>
> Do you also wet people when you say "Bach" like in Johan Sabastian Bach?
> Exactly the same sound.

No, 'fraid not, boer. You Afrikaners may wet people, but
many of the rest of us pronounce the "ch" in a decidedly more
civilized manner...

Idiot. Just because you spit all over people when you say that
word doesn't mean that we do too.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9432 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
christian matter  is tans af-lyn  christian matter
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Junior Lid
> bleah wrote:

deleted an amazing amount of infantile venom and pure ignorance.

I find the reasons for your hate of the Afrikaans language
pretty pathetic.

If you`d your use your head to think a bit instead of having it
only to keep your two ears from touching each other you`d soon
come to the conclusion that a large number of languages were at
sometime or other in history the language of oppressors. I am
think probably quite a few Vietnamese see American English as
the language of oppressors (maybe French too), a Frenchman has
the same feeling about German and the Algerian thinks about
French in a similar vein.

If you find that Afrikaans sounds awful that is your right and
by all means do so but get of the bandwagon of thinking that a
language must sound right to your ears. I think that you`ve
missed an elementary point which is that languages have
developed through the centuries as a means of communication and
it is fairly unimportant whether or not it sounds "nice".

I disagree with you that learning a language like Afrikaans is a
waste of time because no-one outside of South Africa speaks it.
You can atleast communicate well with an Afrikaans speaker
(which I doubt that you are capable of) and understand the
nuances in a conversation. In addition to this you will probably
find that Afrikaans would make the learning of a German easier.

Chris.

By the way is your name really bleah? I would have thought bleat
more appropriate.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9433 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
devil...  is tans af-lyn  devil...
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Junior Lid
The Afrikaans language can in essence be considered as creolised
Dutch. Over many centuries nonwhite slaves at the Cape developed this
language through contact with their white masters.Therefore, for a
very long time whites, including the afrikaners looked down upon it
as a language not worthy of official status, only fit to be spoken in
the kitchen with the slaves.When the English took over in the
Cape,their arrogant , racistlike attitude towards the afrikaners
(e.g. under Lord Somerset) precipitated a sense of cultural
identity. Dutch anglophobes such as Van der Lingen , and Pannevis,
then saw it fit to transform the afrikaans language into a rallying
point for the nascent afrikaner culture against the english
colonialist.Thus the afrikaans language, which was first written by
malays at the cape in arabic script was hijacked by the afrikaner
nationalists as a reaction to the english occupier.As the afrikaners
strengthened their postition in the political landscape they too
wanted to impose their language on others, as the english had done
with them.But for all their wrongs they never tried to stifle the
black languages as did the english or french in their colonies.In SA
the speaking and writing of black languages was encouraged as part of
the divide and conquer strategy of apartheid.However, if you ask a
litrerate black person from e.g. Congo, Senegal whether he can write
his native language, or read it, most often the answer is no. It is
certain that apartheid gave afrikaans a very negative image, also
amongst its original speakers, the Cape Coloureds and Malays. Now, in
the New SA, the language is once again reclaimed by its nonwhite
speakers. There is also renewed academic interest in countries as far
afield as Russia and Hungary. Radio Moscow even broadcasts a half an
hour per day in afrikaans, if I am not mistaken. After Xhosa, and
Zulu, it remains the language understood by most people in South
Africa.

bleah, do us a favour and get your facts right before making such a
terrible fool of yourself.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9434 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Jessica Stern[2]  is tans af-lyn  Jessica Stern[2]
Boodskappe: 2
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
In article , christian matter
wrote:

>> bleah wrote:
>
> deleted an amazing amount of infantile venom and pure ignorance.
>
>
> I find the reasons for your hate of the Afrikaans language
> pretty pathetic.
>
> If you`d your use your head to think a bit instead of having it
> only to keep your two ears from touching each other you`d soon
> come to the conclusion that a large number of languages were at
> sometime or other in history the language of oppressors. I am
> think probably quite a few Vietnamese see American English as
> the language of oppressors (maybe French too), a Frenchman has
> the same feeling about German and the Algerian thinks about
> French in a similar vein.

Yeah, dear bleah from Minnesota. What happened to the Indians that used to
live in your state? I guess they were deported and decimated using
English. They were forced to speak English to the outside world, as no
whites in the USA would bother to learn their languages. Your opinion is
childish and short-sighted. Think before you throw up your thoughts in
this newsgroup.

> I disagree with you that learning a language like Afrikaans is a
> waste of time because no-one outside of South Africa speaks it.
> You can atleast communicate well with an Afrikaans speaker
> (which I doubt that you are capable of) and understand the
> nuances in a conversation. In addition to this you will probably
> find that Afrikaans would make the learning of a German easier.
>

And you could understand Dutch easily. I think you are so limited in your
views that you wouldn't even know this.

Ewout

--
'-) Jessica Stern
east...@mindspring.com
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9435 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
lo...  is tans af-lyn  lo...
Boodskappe: 125
Geregistreer: Desember 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
In Article,
writes:

> p...@neosoft.com wrote:
>>
>> I agree that Afrikaans may be receiving a bad rap because of it's association
>> with a certain historical political process. Although I am not a linguist,
>> Afrikaans is not all "unpleasant" to the ear, IMHO. Consider for example
>> certain Arabic languages or for example Vietnamese - these languages are
>> quite harsh and terse. Afrikaans also seems to be have a content of humour or
>> an expression of humour, using unique terms or words.
>
> Most people would disagree with you.

So you've spoken to most people? Siende dat jy dit nie eens praat nie, hoe kan
jy enige uitsprake daaroor lewer. You work it out.

> I propose that the only people who hear good things about Afrikaans
> are Afrikaners. Afterall, who is going to say that your language sucks
> to your face?

Somebody whith a pseudonym like bleah? Proposal shot down ...

>
> And please, let us not forget the Soweto uprising of 1976, which started
> the cycle of "unrest" which eventually led to the end of the racist
> regime and the triumph of democracy for the masses. Do you remember
> what started the '76 protests? Yes, I think a certain disgusting
> language
> being forced on unwilling people had a role in it.... do you
> remember which language it was?

If you think the Soweto riots was as simplistic as that, keep on dreaming.

>
> Vietnamese is one of the most beautiful languages I know... Arabic is
> too gutteral for me too. As is Afrikaans, Dutch and Hebrew...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9436 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 21 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
p...@neosoft.com wrote:
>
> I agree that Afrikaans may be receiving a bad rap because of it's association
> with a certain historical political process. Although I am not a linguist,
> Afrikaans is not all "unpleasant" to the ear, IMHO. Consider for example
> certain Arabic languages or for example Vietnamese - these languages are
> quite harsh and terse. Afrikaans also seems to be have a content of humour or
> an expression of humour, using unique terms or words.

Most people would disagree with you.

I propose that the only people who hear good things about Afrikaans
are Afrikaners. Afterall, who is going to say that your language sucks
to
your face?

And please, let us not forget the Soweto uprising of 1976, which started
the cycle of "unrest" which eventually led to the end of the racist
regime and the triumph of democracy for the masses. Do you remember
what started the '76 protests? Yes, I think a certain disgusting
language
being forced on unwilling people had a role in it.... do you
remember which language it was?

Vietnamese is one of the most beautiful languages I know... Arabic is
too gutteral for me too. As is Afrikaans, Dutch and Hebrew...
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9460 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 22 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
G.B.  is tans af-lyn  G.B.
Boodskappe: 2219
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
bleah writes:

Bleah, I am a Canadian who left South Africa
a long time ago because we could not stomach
the apartheid regime, (something your folks
obviously did not do, since you still seem to be
travelling on a South African passport.) I want
to tell you that I am sick and tired of your very
predictable platitudes about Afrikaans, a
language which I hold dear and which in no
way should be confused with the activities of
the gangs that kept apartheid in place, gangs
in which English South Africans were liberally
represented. (Remember the name of the
man and his wife who planned the murder of
Chris Hani.) When you insult Afrikaans, you
insult the language of Bram Fischer and of the
Reverend Beyers Naude, a language that
Nelson Mandela studied, a language that the
premier of Maphumalanga uses to write and
publish poetry. So may I ask you politely to
stop crossposting to the Afrikaans newsgroup.
If you do not do so, I will assume that you are
a very lonely guy that wants to draw attention
to yourself in the only way he knows how - by
trying to irritate people. You are talking to the
wrong crowd. The people on the Afrikaans
newsgroup are probably more "liberal" than
you can ever hope to be.

Gloudina Bouwer
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9485 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Sa, 24 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Koos[1]  is tans af-lyn  Koos[1]
Boodskappe: 752
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
On Mon, 19 May 1997 13:14:12 -0500, bleah
wrote:

Neo-Nazi AWB type.>>>[/color]

Which brings us to the very interesting thing of your mindset of
course.

And the "stupidity of the ages" thing. The thing that many people
never seem to be able to learn from past experiences.

Like in your case where you seem not to be able to get past the "this
tribe" and "that tribe" mentality.

You are utterly unable, it seems, to even begin to realise that a
general concept comes from these past mistakes.
And that that concept is a universal one under which one must place
not only those that trangressed in the past, but also yourself.
Otherwise all the struggling was in vain.
No great thing, mererly a drawm out squabble spattered with blood.

Are you then in the end just another barbarian of history?
That will make you just like Eugene Terre'Blanche and those guys, you
know.

Just a different version.

I would advise you to go and read what a man like Nelson Mandela has
to say about racism. You might find some help in there.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9525 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 26 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
@igs.net wrote:
>
> bleah writes:
> I want
> to tell you that I am sick and tired of your very
> predictable platitudes about Afrikaans, a
> language which I hold dear and which in no
> way should be confused with the activities of
> the gangs that kept apartheid in place

I couldn't agree less!!

> So may I ask you politely to
> stop crossposting to the Afrikaans newsgroup.

Hey, I post where I like. And since the subject
matter concerns kitchen dutch, it gets posted here
too.

> The people on the Afrikaans
> newsgroup are probably more "liberal" than
> you can ever hope to be.

heh!
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9526 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 26 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
devil...@new.co.za wrote:
> [...]

You said that Afrikaans was a Creole language.... isn't that
what I said? I understand that kitchen dutch is still a
compulsary matric subject. That must change. Let the
kitchen dutch speak kitchen dutch.... and let the rest
of us witness the death of Afrikaans.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9527 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 26 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Jonnie wrote:
>
>>
>> English Afrikaans
>>
>> I went ek het gegaan
>> I have gone ek het gegaan
>> I had gone ek het gegaan
>> I would have gone (ek het gegaan) ek sou gegaan het
>> I would have been going (ek het gegaan) ek sou gegaan het
>> I had been going ek het gegaan
>>

ooooooooooo!
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9528 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 26 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Koos[1]  is tans af-lyn  Koos[1]
Boodskappe: 752
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
On Wed, 21 May 97 09:23:27, lo...@hotmail.s_p_a_m.com wrote:

>>

Ja Lou die ou het homself nogal mooi opgesom met sy eie naam.

Kan jy dink hoe sy ma op die stoep staan en hom aande roep?
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9531 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Ma, 26 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Koos[1]  is tans af-lyn  Koos[1]
Boodskappe: 752
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
On Tue, 20 May 1997 13:03:18 -0500, bleah
wrote:

[/color]
> Any language that is spoken in one country only,
> i.e., one nation. Duh. (Do you know what
> "international" means??)>>>

He, he....

You're wiping out a lot in one sentence, heh?

(P.S. Where else in American spoken? Not English, American. Or are we
into "strains of language" here. In which case you are going to look
like baby shit.)
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9551 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
christian matter  is tans af-lyn  christian matter
Boodskappe: 3
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
bleah wrote:
>
>
>
>
> English Afrikaans
>
> I went ek het gegaan
> I have gone ek het gegaan
> I had gone ek het gegaan
> I would have gone (ek het gegaan) ek sou gegaan het
> I would have been going (ek het gegaan) ek sou gegaan het
> I had been going ek het gegaan
>

Why don`t you do it instead of repeating it in variations?

Chris
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9552 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Leon Retief  is tans af-lyn  Leon Retief
Boodskappe: 28
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Bleah writes, inter alia:

> Have a look at the rich past tense
> structure... (And English is nothing compared to other
> languages, of course)
>
> English Afrikaans
>
> I went ek het gegaan
> I have gone ek het gegaan
> I had gone ek het gegaan
> I would have gone ek het gegaan
> I would have been going ek het gegaan

I don't particularly care what you think about Afrikaans, bleah dearest, we
get along just fine without you. However, if you want to quote examples to
prove your point, please do not use incorrect ones.
"I would have gone" and "I would hav ebene going" translate as: "ek sou
gegaan het".
The richness of a language lies mostly in its vocabulary. What your
examples prove is simply that many languages, English included, can be
surprisingly verbose in saying the same thing. According to your standards,
the !Kung language shoule be regarded a sthe most advanced language in the
world - and maybe it is. Take a look at the latest Weekly Mail & Guardian.

Regards
Leon Retief
Bellville
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9553 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Leendert van Oostrum  is tans af-lyn  Leendert van Oostrum
Boodskappe: 1892
Geregistreer: Julie 2000
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
bleah wrote:

> Hey, I post where I like. And since the subject
> matter concerns kitchen dutch, it gets posted here
> too.

"Soos 'n hond wat na sy uitbraaksel teruggaan, is 'n dwaas wat sy sotheid
weer ophaal"

Spr 29:11
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9554 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Di, 27 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Koos[1]  is tans af-lyn  Koos[1]
Boodskappe: 752
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
On Mon, 26 May 1997 08:57:08 -0500, bleah
wrote:

matter concerns kitchen dutch, it gets posted here[/color]
> too.>>

We know you post where you like.
You also don't mind where you show you small soul, mean spirit and low
intelligence.

....but you are scared to give your real name.

So here we have you: Insulting. Racist. Stupid. And a coward.

(Did you also know kids like that when you were young?...or WERE you
that kid?)
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9574 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Wo, 28 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Leon Retief spewed:
>
> Bleah writes, inter alia:
>
>> Have a look at the rich past tense
>> structure... (And English is nothing compared to other
>> languages, of course)
>>
>> English Afrikaans
>>
>> I went ek het gegaan
>> I have gone ek het gegaan
>> I had gone ek het gegaan
>> I would have gone ek het gegaan
>> I would have been going ek het gegaan
>
> I don't particularly care what you think about Afrikaans, bleah dearest, we
> get along just fine without you. However, if you want to quote examples to
> prove your point, please do not use incorrect ones.
> "I would have gone" and "I would hav ebene going" translate as: "ek sou
> gegaan het".

Oh my God, there are TWO whole past tenses!!!!! Amazing!!!
Now translate: I did go. Yep, it comes out again as
"ek het gegaan". All these mean different things in English,
so speaking Afrikaans must be similar to having a partial
lobotomy.

> The richness of a language lies mostly in its vocabulary. What your
> examples prove is simply that many languages, English included, can be
> surprisingly verbose in saying the same thing. According to your standards,
> the !Kung language shoule be regarded a sthe most advanced language in the
> world - and maybe it is. Take a look at the latest Weekly Mail & Guardian.

Did I not say "and English is nothing compared to other languages"???
I am not an advocate of English.... it is merely a fact that English
is the most useful language on the planet. (Unless you live in China).
If we are going to start talking about the richness of Afrikaans
vocabulary, well then let's have some fun!!

English Afrikaans translated literally
back into English

glove hand shoe
meat flesh
flesh flesh
surgeon cut doctor
dead end, cul-de-sac street walks dead
squash/racket-ball wall ball
walk walk
run hard walk
warm warm
hot warm

So what were you saying about the richness of your language?
It is a sand paper/ throat cancer/ retching / gagging language
with a very poor grammatical stucture and pitiful vocabulary.

P.S. when you say that other languages are verbose compared to
Afrikaans... it just proves that Afrikaans is your mother language.
Anyone else would say Afrikaans is a bastard language which is
not really suitable for actually expressing one's inner feelings.
(Unless, of course, one is discussing racism and apartheid. Then
Afrikaans and all its harshness works wonderfully)

... and let us not forget that Afrikaans had no way of talking
about sex and love making, etc, in any kind of romantic
way until VERY recently (if it is even possible yet).

unkind regards
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9593 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Jonnie  is tans af-lyn  Jonnie
Boodskappe: 31
Geregistreer: Oktober 1996
Karma: 0
Volle Lid
Bleah writes:
>>
>
> English Afrikaans translated literally
> back into English
>
> glove hand shoe
> meat flesh (afr: vleis)
> flesh flesh (afr: vlees)
> surgeon cut doctor (afr: chirurg)
> dead end, cul-de-sac street walks dead (or cul-de-sac which is actually neither eng nor afr)
> squash/racket-ball wall ball
> walk walk
> run hard walk
> warm warm (afr: lou)
> hot warm (afr: warm)
>
> So what were you saying about the richness of your language?

Btw what is the english for the afrikaans word "eergister"? I think it is
some silly sentence like "the day before yesterday".

--
Jonnie
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9594 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
gal...  is tans af-lyn  gal...
Boodskappe: 191
Geregistreer: Mei 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
Mr bleah,

I write in Afrikaans because Afrikaans has culture, character and identity,
it is not simply a way of communicating (which is what english has become).
English has no culture as a language, it has become the world language,
and thereby lost its identity.
English now only has small nuances, it disappears into a sea
of nationalities, own by nobody any more - only the accents differ.
I therefore find English rather boring.
It has too much redundancy and waste (too many words for the same thing),
not as presice as french, a rather stupid and archaic way of spelling,
too many tenses etc. (Afrikaans has basically only 3: Past, present & future,
which is so much more logical). etc etc.
The fact that it has become the world's way of communicating does not make it
any better.

Afrikaans is the most modern language in the world (little known fact).
It is very easy to learn, and very creative,
despite only a small group of speakers).

NS: Ek het nou al bg. gepos, lank gelede, maar party engelse drolle op
die nuusgroep kan dit maar weer lees.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9595 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Leendert van Oostrum wrote:
>
> bleah wrote:
>
>> Hey, I post where I like. And since the subject
>> matter concerns kitchen dutch, it gets posted here
>> too.
>
>
> "Soos 'n hond wat na sy uitbraaksel teruggaan, is 'n dwaas wat sy sotheid
> weer ophaal"
>
> Spr 29:11

Oh yeah?? Well, you're ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9596 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
Cranko  is tans af-lyn  Cranko
Boodskappe: 1
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Bleah, what are you? Are you white or black?
Because if you are black, can you please give me the black alphabet. Not
the European one which the blacks have used for communication, but the
black one. The one they developed by themselves, for themselves. I would
appreciate it.

Speaking of partial lobotomy, did it leave any visible scars?
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9597 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
XOLI  is tans af-lyn  XOLI
Boodskappe: 4
Geregistreer: Augustus 1996
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Cranko wrote:

> Bleah, what are you? Are you white or black?
> Because if you are black, can you please give me the black alphabet. Not
> the European one which the blacks have used for communication, but the
> black one. The one they developed by themselves, for themselves. I would
> appreciate it.
>
> Speaking of partial lobotomy, did it leave any visible scars?

Cranko, as much as I find your posts very thrilling and insightful at
times, even though they often desperately seek to attack my black
greatnessness (our great blacknessness, I mean), I think you are now
talking shit when you say you want to be shown a black alphabet.
Honestly Cranko I'm deeply disappointed at this blatant bullshit you
pasted above, for one thing that it shows it shows, to my dismay, that
you sometimes can be extremely narrowminded (you sometimes can be an
all-time imbecille, in other words).
Alphabets are only conventional Cranko, it's the speech that they
represent that counts. As such, they have no colour, creed or
intolerance.
Sure, blacks may not be the ones who first came with the idea of putting
down speech in written form, they have nothing to be ashamed of in using
any of the alphabets or even languages of European origin however.
Besides, there are better ways of demonstrating one's selfperceived
superiority rather than taking conceit in mere alphabets; You can for
instance let go of those insults that are beaming with congestion inside
your small chest-- that way this discussion could get even more exciting
as it's now starting to bore me.
Your insults are safe with me Cranko boy (and this goes also to
everybody else who is as sick as Cranko is), just let me not be given a
reason to feel that perhaps I should be the one to fire them first, for
by that I suspect my motives might be seriously mistaken, which would
itself be a blatant insult.
Peace.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9598 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapna volgende boodskap
bleah  is tans af-lyn  bleah
Boodskappe: 22
Geregistreer: Mei 1997
Karma: 0
Junior Lid
Koos wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 May 1997 08:57:08 -0500, bleah
> wrote:
>
> > matter concerns kitchen dutch, it gets posted here
>> too.>>
>
> We know you post where you like.
> You also don't mind where you show you small soul, mean spirit and low
> intelligence.
>
> ....but you are scared to give your real name.
>
> So here we have you: Insulting. Racist. Stupid. And a coward.
>
> (Did you also know kids like that when you were young?...or WERE you
> that kid?)

Oh yeah?? Well, you're ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.
Re: Afrikaans [boodskap #9599 is 'n antwoord op boodskap #5866] Do, 29 Mei 1997 00:00 Na vorige boodskapNa vorige boodskap
Koos[1]  is tans af-lyn  Koos[1]
Boodskappe: 752
Geregistreer: Januarie 1996
Karma: 0
Senior Lid
On Wed, 28 May 1997 15:38:56 -0500, bleah
wrote:

>

Where the most people in the world live.

(Or of course if you are Spanish - which is spoken by more people than
English is.)

.....and so Bleah the farty little boy slowly learns more of life....
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